Starfish question(s)...

Steve Jones · Jun 23, 2016

I am looking into getting a small starfish for my tank. Looking at fromia milleporella or fromia monilis. My main question has to do with QT. I am reading about a 50-50 split on whether starfish should be QTed. Since they are somewhat fragile and can't take sudden temp, PH, etc changes and require a really long acclimation process, many say the stress of acclimating to QT tank and then doing it again to DT can be too hard on the starfish. Others say starfish don't carry fish diseases. Others say QT everything.

My concern is that my QT tank is pretty bare bones. No sand bottom, a couple pieces of PVC and a small piece of LR. Would this be good enough to QT a starfish? I know I will need to do supplemental feeding as there just isn't the algae in the QT tank that would be needed. But would such a bare environment be too stressful? The positive of QT (beside preventing spreading "infection" to the DT) would be that if the starfish is sick and dies in the first 2 weeks, I won't have to worry about trying to dig it out of some crevice in the LR of the DT before it starts to decay.

Thought? Opinions?

Diesel · Jun 23, 2016

Great question but I can't give you a answer.
I myself never bothered to have a starfish as most of them never have a long live in captivity anyway.
Let's see what the squad has on this question.

[HASHTAG]#reefsquad[/HASHTAG]

redfishbluefish · Jun 23, 2016

I too am unable to answer the QT question, but did want to respond about starfish diet. They like a hearty meat diet. In the wild, most will eat clams, mussels dead fish, (other starfish), etc. So feed the meats and your starfish will be happy. Any algae is the "salad" for that meaty meal.

cameronh · Jun 23, 2016

In my experience, qt kills a starfish quick. Have done it twice and they do not like it. Are you using any medications or anything?

Steve Jones · Jun 23, 2016

cameronh said:
In my experience, qt kills a starfish quick. Have done it twice and they do not like it. Are you using any medications or anything?

No. No medications added to the QT at present.

dbl · Jun 23, 2016

Due to their sensitivity of change, I would simply recommend an extended drip acclimation and no bare-boned QT. After a great deal of research, I've tried on two occasions to add a red Linckia because my wife wanted a red starfish. On both occasions, they lasted about 6 months and then simply withered away, proving @Diesel's point above. I do have a sand-sifter that's been in there for 2+ years.

reefwiser · Jun 23, 2016

Steve I wouldnt bother with QT'ing a star fish. Fromia milleporella lives on algae film which most QT just do not have the food source to keep them alive.

Steve Jones · Jun 23, 2016

So the leaning seems to be more toward no QT. As my DT has two weeks left on a 76 day fallow period due to a Brooks outbreak, how worried should I be about skipping QT on a starfish? What diseases can a starfish bring with it?

reefwiser · Jun 23, 2016

On Starfish diseases.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fromiadisf.htm
They can be touch to accilmate and casue more issues as they can die rather quickly causing water quality issues more than anything.

Steve Jones · Jun 23, 2016

reefwiser said:
On Starfish diseases.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fromiadisf.htm
They can be touch to accilmate and casue more issues as they can die rather quickly causing water quality issues more than anything.

Thanks for the link. Not a very easy to read "forum".

I'm more interested (in this discussion) in what diseases / parasites a starfish can bring in that will effect the other folks in the DT if I skip QT rather than diseases the starfish itself can get.

melypr1985 · Jun 23, 2016

your main concern as far as fish diseases go anyway, would be from the water the star fish comes in. So, after acclimation you'll want to be sure to introduce as little water with him as possible. My plan is to put any future star fish in my coral QT for a few weeks before going into the DT.

Humblefish · Jun 23, 2016

When tested (credit to Peter Burgess - see below), ich tomonts were found to be incapable of encysting to Asteria starfish & Echinus urchins. However, it is very possible that free swimming theronts could be in a droplet of water on the starfish. Putting the starfish in a bucket for 48 hrs would mitigate this threat, as the theronts will die without a fish host to feed upon. Or you could just pour some tank water over the starfish (and into a bucket for the water to be discarded) prior to placing in your DT, to "wash away" any theronts.

Steve Jones · Jun 23, 2016

melypr1985 said:
your main concern as far as fish diseases go anyway, would be from the water the star fish comes in. So, after acclimation you'll want to be sure to introduce as little water with him as possible. My plan is to put any future star fish in my coral QT for a few weeks before going into the DT.

Thanks. If I had a more fully developed QT tank, I wouldn't hesitate to QT the starfish.

Another issue I have read is the expose to air / not expose to air discussion. Seems about 50-50 split on this as well. Some say NEVER expose the starfish to air while others say the quick move from LFS bag to tank won't hurt. Being able to lift completely out of the LFS bag and transfer after acclimation seems safer in terms of transferring as little LFS water as possible. Thoughts?

Steve Jones · Jun 23, 2016

Humblefish said:
When tested (credit to Peter Burgess - see below), ich tomonts were found to be incapable of encysting to Asteria starfish & Echinus urchins. However, it is very possible that free swimming theronts could be in a droplet of water on the starfish. Putting the starfish in a bucket for 48 hrs would mitigate this threat, as the theronts will die without a fish host to feed upon. Or you could just pour some tank water over the starfish (and into a bucket for the water to be discarded) prior to placing in your DT, to "wash away" any theronts.

So the process might be:
1) Acclimate the starfish in the bag to DT water (temp/PH/salinity, etc) is a slow, several hour drip acclimation
2) Remove the starfish from bag (see my other response & Q about exposure to air) and pour DT water over the starfish to "rinse" it off (and hopefully any hitchhiking friends in the bag water) - but do it quickly to minimize air exposure time.
3) Place into DT.

melypr1985 · Jun 23, 2016

Steve Jones said:
Thanks. If I had a more fully developed QT tank, I wouldn't hesitate to QT the starfish.

Another issue I have read is the expose to air / not expose to air discussion. Seems about 50-50 split on this as well. Some say NEVER expose the starfish to air while others say the quick move from LFS bag to tank won't hurt. Being able to lift completely out of the LFS bag and transfer after acclimation seems safer in terms of transferring as little LFS water as possible. Thoughts?

So we've had some experience with this at the store and here is what we found. We had a shipment of linkias and fromias shipped without any air in the bags with special instructions to never expose the stars to air during bagging. We had the entire shipment survive- didn't lose a single star. Now, we've repeated this process exactly and each time we lost about half of what we ordered. After a while of losing half our stars we grew lax in our methods and exposed them to air, or not, or both, or whatever and seem to have the same results. We lose about half of what we order before they sell. That one time where we didn't lose a single one seems to have been a fluke. I've been told that most of these stars live in tidal zones with lots of oxygen saturation and get exposed to air during the tides.

Boy, I feel like I just babbled for ten minutes. I hope that gives you some insight.... so far I've just reached a resignation with them and not much else.

fab · Jun 23, 2016

Accidental duplicate submission.
fab

fab · Jun 23, 2016

@Humblefish pointed out the 48 hour hold in QT to assure your not importing Ich. Do not skip over that very important point. Remember, a single drop of water... And you could be redesignating your QT to HT.

Ich ... Ugh!
fab

Humblefish · Jun 23, 2016

Steve Jones said:
So the process might be:
1) Acclimate the starfish in the bag to DT water (temp/PH/salinity, etc) is a slow, several hour drip acclimation
2) Remove the starfish from bag (see my other response & Q about exposure to air) and pour DT water over the starfish to "rinse" it off (and hopefully any hitchhiking friends in the bag water) - but do it quickly to minimize air exposure time.
3) Place into DT.

Yes, except be thorough when pouring DT water all over the star. You don't want to miss a spot. The 48 hour hold would be the safer approach. It all comes down to your tolerance for risk.

fab · Jun 23, 2016

Humblefish said:
It all comes down to your tolerance for risk.

...and how risky your tolerance is!

Steve Jones · Jun 23, 2016

fab said:
@Humblefish pointed out the 48 hour hold in QT to assure your not importing Ich. Do not skip over that very important point. Remember, a single drop of water... And you could be redesignating your QT to HT.

Ich ... Ugh!
fab

Yes. But he gave an "OR" situation. Though with the "wink" not sure how serious the second option was - but certainly seems easier. 48 hours in a bucket seems harsh as opposed to at least going into the QT tank for 48 hours. In the QT tank I have aeration, at least some stability, constant temp. etc. But is acclimation to QT followed by acclimation to DT in 48 hours going to be too hard on the starfish?

Wait - my DT is still going fallow for two more weeks (ie: no fish in it!). If I acclimate, rinse off in bucket with DT water and place in DT, there are no fish in there for 2 more weeks. So wouldn't that kill off / starve any ich? The starfish would have the DT to itself for 2 weeks (plus inverts).

Another aspect - if I order online (which I would probably have to as the LFS around me seldom have starfish - let alone the ones I am looking for) can I start the 48 hour "timer" from the ship time since the starfish would be in a bag alone starting then?