I have a 50 gal total volume system that I've been struggling with. Over the past 3 months I've seen nitrate between 10-25 and a phosphate of .025. I have been attempting to raise phosphate what the heck increased feedings of reef chilli and frozen food....but it has been prudent. I only have 2 small clowns in the tank and have thought about upping the fish load. I have installed a nitrate reactor thathas been keeping my nitrates steady. I'm curious if i should start dosiing phosphate. SPS only tank.
start dosing phosphate?
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Tony616
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Pretty sure he said 0.025, which is pretty low. My SPS would lose color if po4 is under 0.05
Tony616
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Try putting your skimmer on a timer, or you can dose Loudwolf trisodium phosphate. Use this calculator http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm
I would either start dosing or lower your nitrates because the ratio is off. You don’t need to dose that much, but for me, the bottom is about 0.02 ppm. Below that and the corals will start to get pale and starve over time unless you have a decent amount of nutrition going in, but every tank is different and it depends other factors as well. 0.05-0.1 ppm is great. Nitrates should be around 5-10 ppm at that PO4 level.
Note the picture before and after the Na3PO4 dose. Check out the color of the coral. My PO4 was 0.01-0.02 just days before that. I do need to mention that I was pushing the corals with a lot of light. They basically outgrew their resources.
TSP has worked well for my situation, although my friend says it’s “not bioavailable P to corals, only feeds nuisance algae.”
This hasn’t been my experience with the product. What do you think @Randy Holmes-Farley? Is there a better option that has more bioavailability and if so please let me know so I can purchase it.
Apologies for my terrible spelling. I had a few when I wrote that. Nothing better than attempting to figure out reef tanks while under the influence right.
Anyway, I am attempting to play with my numbers as I've been suspecting an imbalance. I have never been able to get rid of dinos in the tank despite various blackouts and cleanings. After watching the BRS video on the Redfield ratio and how important the balance between the 2 is I started trying to increase phosphate. I also started dosing phyto and added pods to try to liven up the reef. Since then I have seen a reduction in dinos and a start to other types of algae. I have seen green algae, cyano, and bubble algae begin to form. So I think I'm going through the stage that I was never able to reach before because of ultra-low levels preventing growth.
I am using a nyos test kit that is not expired.
I have not been successful in lowering my nitrates past what they are now. With the addition of the reactor, they've been stable in the 10-25 range. I am unable to get more specific with those numbers since the salifert nitrate kit doesn't allow for it. Since its stable there I am comfortable leaving it as is.
The skimmer on the timer is quite an interesting idea. I have an oversized skimmer, some ehopps brand thing. I am not sure of the exact model but I know it was used on a 150gal system before. Would it not lead to an increase in nitrates?
Thank you all for your advice despite my apparent inability to spell or form coherent sentences.
Anyway, I am attempting to play with my numbers as I've been suspecting an imbalance. I have never been able to get rid of dinos in the tank despite various blackouts and cleanings. After watching the BRS video on the Redfield ratio and how important the balance between the 2 is I started trying to increase phosphate. I also started dosing phyto and added pods to try to liven up the reef. Since then I have seen a reduction in dinos and a start to other types of algae. I have seen green algae, cyano, and bubble algae begin to form. So I think I'm going through the stage that I was never able to reach before because of ultra-low levels preventing growth.
I am using a nyos test kit that is not expired.
I have not been successful in lowering my nitrates past what they are now. With the addition of the reactor, they've been stable in the 10-25 range. I am unable to get more specific with those numbers since the salifert nitrate kit doesn't allow for it. Since its stable there I am comfortable leaving it as is.
The skimmer on the timer is quite an interesting idea. I have an oversized skimmer, some ehopps brand thing. I am not sure of the exact model but I know it was used on a 150gal system before. Would it not lead to an increase in nitrates?
Thank you all for your advice despite my apparent inability to spell or form coherent sentences.
Randy Holmes-Farley
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I'm not convinced that 0.025 ppm phosphate is too low or that corals would benefit from more, but dosing a little or feeding a bit more is a fine thing to try.
I'm not of the thought that the optimal level of phosphate rises as the level of nitrate raises.
IMO, good target ranges are 0.02 to 0.1 ppm phosphate and 2-10 ppm nitrate.
I'm not of the thought that the optimal level of phosphate rises as the level of nitrate raises.
IMO, good target ranges are 0.02 to 0.1 ppm phosphate and 2-10 ppm nitrate.
So an update. It has been 3 days since I began dosing Neophos. I checked my nitrate and phosphate at the 24 hour mark again today. I have nitrates in between the 10-25 range and phosphate still .025. I have done the calculation with a slight adjustment and wanted to ensure that was reasonable or if I should go further. I am dosing 1.7ml neophos. I did 45gal * .01 *3.785. I was hoping I would be able to see a slight color change on the test kit but its too small a dose to give me anything of use. To notice really anything I would have to increase to .1ppm phosphate. This would be an addition of 12.7 ml of neophos. I am trying to not make things swing around too much. I am concerned if I alter the phosphate that much I will cause problems. Any advice?
Lavey29
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I had to double dose neophos for multiple weeks before I got measurable number.
So it won't cause issues in the tank to dose a significantly more amount of neophos to get measurable results? I know changes with alage and such can occur, that's fine. I'm more concerned about damaging my corals.
Just to clarify. Should I just dose until I get a marked increase? Once I increase will the phosphate levels likely hold there? I don't have very many corals as I'm still attempting to grow them out.
Randy Holmes-Farley
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I’m not understanding. Is the phosphate 0.025 ppm or undetectable?
What are you checking the phosphate with? I would not chase phosphate without using a Hannah checker, but it is probably not going to do much to chase it at all. If not a Hannah Ultra Low, then I would stop all of this until you get one. I have 1-3 ppb on the Hannah Ultra Low and my corals grow like crazy.
Most of what you are doing is likely ending up being bound to the aragonite in your tank.
Most of what you are doing is likely ending up being bound to the aragonite in your tank.
It's hard to tell. With the nyos kit the color of the kit most well compares to .025 the next step up in the color is .05 but the color is still very similar to .025. the first step on the kit where the color changes to a blue is .1 which is why I said the only way with some confidence that my level was rising would be to increase to .1
ReefGeezer
Valuable Member
In my mind, any reading above 0 indicates that there is adequate inorganic phosphate in the system to keep processes from being limited. I agree with JDA that adding more simply increases the likelihood of more being bound to the substrate. I'd also join those who warn about chasing numbers without a test method suitable to identify the small changes desired. Even the Hanna ULR might not accurately report the minor changes you want.
Personally, I'd be happy at your current level and worry about lowering nitrates to 5-10 ppm. A couple of big water changes could easily get you there.
Personally, I'd be happy at your current level and worry about lowering nitrates to 5-10 ppm. A couple of big water changes could easily get you there.
I appreciate your continued responses.
The reason I'm chasing any numbers is because I have been trying to finally fix a long term dino problem. It has choked out my corals despite over a year of attempts to get rid of it. As I stated above, following dosage of phyto I finally began to see other types of algae grow in the tank. I've seen green, less dinos, and cyano. I hoped that with a change in phosphate I could finally see an end to the dinos. This is me trying to obtain somewhat of a balance and get close to the redfield ratio. I would be happy leaving my tank as is if things weren't changing with the introduction of phyto. In my mind, it means I'm heading in the right direction adding nutrients to the tank. My coral has always been very slow growing if not sickly looking despite having good flow and high light. I almost gave up reefing a while back because of my failure to get any appreciable results despite dumping so much money into this. I'm still struggling to get my Zoa's to grow significantly. However, since i started to have movement with new algae with my efforts of extra feeding and phyto, its given me some hope. Thats why I am trying to dose phosphate. I am hoping I can make this tank turn around. I have posted other threads for solutions on this site and others. Nothing has worked as well as just adding more nutrients. I know reefing is about consistency and i have tried hard. All this to say while I will perform a giant water change, I am currently making 30 gallons, I dont think it will make any difference. I've tried this before.
ReefGeezer
Valuable Member
I'm glad to hear the tank is heading in the right direction. Raising phosphate a little won't hurt anything. I think the concern is the equipment used to measure the level.
I'm a big fan of dosing live phytoplankton and skimming it out after a few hours. Not so much for the dead stuff though. While it may provide some food, it increases nutrient levels too much.
I'm a big fan of dosing live phytoplankton and skimming it out after a few hours. Not so much for the dead stuff though. While it may provide some food, it increases nutrient levels too much.
Adding phosphate could growth-limit the dinos on the high end, but this can cause other issues. As you might know, redfield ratio is not an important ratio to any life except to phytoplankton and that the environments that they live in are not anywhere near that ratio. If you want to do this, then read up on how aragonite binds phosphate... it can/will bind quite a bit and can act like a large reservoir, so what you dose mostly goes into the rocks and sand, but eventually the water level can rise. If the water level of po4 does rise and stays there, then the rocks and sand are starting to fill up.
Nobody wants to hear this, so sorry, but dinos are just a rite of passage. That does not mean that they suck less, because they do, but choices can prolong them. Dead/dry rock can make this phase last for years. So can humans trying to shorten the phase - usually needing to be repaid many times. I hope that you are on the downslope and nearing the end. If not, then a package of real live rock from Florida will help more than anything else. The live rock works with all kinds.
Nobody wants to hear this, so sorry, but dinos are just a rite of passage. That does not mean that they suck less, because they do, but choices can prolong them. Dead/dry rock can make this phase last for years. So can humans trying to shorten the phase - usually needing to be repaid many times. I hope that you are on the downslope and nearing the end. If not, then a package of real live rock from Florida will help more than anything else. The live rock works with all kinds.
