starting 110g getto system

beaslbob · Nov 6, 2015

Dr holmes-Farley.

(of Randy. LOL)

just got 2 55g $1/gal Petco tanks with all tempered glass.

Am gonna should I get around to it start my cheapest beaslbob getto system with my own stand, rocks and so on.

Just to make it interesting and pretending I'm doing this back in the 50's (tonight) (like the song) how about you salt mix receipt?

And any other help like I crazy also.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 6, 2015

Here's a salt mix. For a real cheapo, you could probably drop everything after the potassium chloride, and raise it by 0.1 g to 0.8 g.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php

from it:

For those who are interested, the following artificial seawater recipe is taken from "Chemical Oceanography" by Frank Millero. It makes a recipe that matches 35 ppt seawater in terms of major ions, but does not try to match all minor and trace elements, most of which will be present as impurities in the major elements.

23.98 g sodium chloride
5.029 g magnesium chloride
4.01 g sodium sulfate
1.14 g calcium chloride
0.699 g potassium chloride
0.172 g sodium bicarbonate
0.100 g potassium bromide
0.0254 g boric acid
0.0143 g strontium chloride
0.0029 g sodium fluoride
Water to 1 kg total weight.

beaslbob · Nov 6, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Here's a salt mix. For a real cheapo, you could probably drop everything after the potassium chloride, and raise it by 0.1 g to 0.8 g.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php

from it:

For those who are interested, the following artificial seawater recipe is taken from "Chemical Oceanography" by Frank Millero. It makes a recipe that matches 35 ppt seawater in terms of major ions, but does not try to match all minor and trace elements, most of which will be present as impurities in the major elements.

23.98 g sodium chloride
5.029 g magnesium chloride
4.01 g sodium sulfate
1.14 g calcium chloride
0.699 g potassium chloride
0.172 g sodium bicarbonate
0.100 g potassium bromide
0.0254 g boric acid
0.0143 g strontium chloride
0.0029 g sodium fluoride
Water to 1 kg total weight.

thanks.

I was going to include the sodium bicarbonate also.

Actually I was gonna add the potassium chloride until the potassium tested 380-400ppm or so, the add magnesum (chloride and sulfate) till 1350ppm, then calcium chloride to 400ppm and sodium bicarbonate to 9 dkh then sodium chloride to 1.025 sg.

And let the system "stew" with a filled sea grass, macro algae, lagoon/refugium until the system was balanced out.
and simply use male mollies to get things going. After a month or so add salt only fish and after a few months some easy type corals.

Which is all fine and dandy but first I gotta set it up so the wife doesn't "comment" too much.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 6, 2015

Sorry, yes, you'd need the bicarbonate unless you handled that just as an additive.

JimWelsh · Nov 6, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Here's a salt mix. For a real cheapo, you could probably drop everything after the potassium chloride, and raise it by 0.1 g to 0.8 g.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php

from it:

For those who are interested, the following artificial seawater recipe is taken from "Chemical Oceanography" by Frank Millero. It makes a recipe that matches 35 ppt seawater in terms of major ions, but does not try to match all minor and trace elements, most of which will be present as impurities in the major elements.

23.98 g sodium chloride
5.029 g magnesium chloride
4.01 g sodium sulfate
1.14 g calcium chloride
0.699 g potassium chloride
0.172 g sodium bicarbonate
0.100 g potassium bromide
0.0254 g boric acid
0.0143 g strontium chloride
0.0029 g sodium fluoride
Water to 1 kg total weight.

One thing that always gets left out of this "recipe" is the additional instructions (at the bottom of Table 2.3 seen here: https://books.google.com/books?id=Xt5T8LtPjBgC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA62#v=onepage&q&f=false ). As far as I can tell, there are two reasons for treating the hydrated alkaline earth metal salts separately: First, they are difficult to weigh accurately, due to the water of hydration (although most hobbyists aren't going to determine the concentrations of the chloride salt solutions by the Mohr method), and Second, dissolving the anhydrous and hydrated salts separately and then combining the two solutions avoids precipitation (this is the important part for the hobbyist).

Many people who have attempted making saltwater using the recipe given above have reported problems with precipitates forming. Kester, et. al. (see reference below) describe how they avoided such precipitation by preparing artificial seawater in two separate containers: One with about two-thirds of the water that contained the anhydrous salts (everything except the MgCl2, CaCl2, and SrCl2), and the other with about one-third of the water containing the hydrated salts. After the two solutions were each thoroughly mixed, they then combined the two while stirring.

Reference:
Kester, Dana R., et al. "PREPARATION OF ARTIFICIAL SEAWATER1." Limnology and Oceanography 12.1 (1967): 176-179.
Link: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.4319/lo.1967.12.1.0176/pdf

JimWelsh · Nov 7, 2015

One other important note for anyone wanting to use this recipe: The magnesium chloride, calcium chloride and strontium chloride amounts in the recipe are assuming you are using the anhydrous salts. If you are using magnesium chloride hexahydrate, then the amount is 10.739 g instead of 5.029, for calcium chloride hexahydrate, it is 2.25 g instead of 1.14, and for strontium chloride hexahydrate it is 0.0240 g instead of 0.0143. The only other salt that might be hydrated is sodium sulfate, but it can be dried in the oven to ensure it is the anhydrous salt before using.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 7, 2015

Thanks, Jim.

So what do you think is precipitating? Metal carbonates?

Assuming so, perhaps just adding the bicarbonate slowly and carefully after everything else is dissolves will do the trick.

JimWelsh · Nov 7, 2015

CaSO4 and SrSO4 can precipitate also.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 7, 2015

JimWelsh said:
CaSO4 and SrSO4 can precipitate also.

How would this be worse than a commercial salt mix which piles it all in together?

JimWelsh · Nov 7, 2015

Depending on how much of the different salts are added in which order, the amount of precipitation can be quite a bit, in my experience, and also in the experience of others who have reported problems in other forums with precipitation when attempting this. Perhaps if the salts are all mixed thoroughly first, it is not a problem. I just know that I've tried the Millero recipe, and have had precipitation problems, until I used the two solution approach I describe above. Apparently, Kester, et. al, also encountered this problem, as evidenced by their comments in their published paper on the subject. I'm just trying to be helpful to beaslbob, just in case he encounters the same problem, too.