Starting a no-expense-spared 10g sps nano, advice needed
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Honestly a single AI Prime is not enough for SPS regardless of tank size. It's just not enough for SPS, doesn't matter if it's over a 5g pico tank or a standard 10 gallon.
You need at least two, In my experience -- been there, waste of money
As for sumps -- They only make sound if you either A) Want them to (I like the sound), or B) Set it up poorly.
Do some research, it doesn't matter what size tank you go with. I always recommend a sump for a multitude of reasons.
A 20g Long with a 20g Long sump (or standard 20g) would give you all the room you need for quality equipment. You could have a bustling little system full of small fish and the stability of more water, plus better equipment.
You need at least two, In my experience -- been there, waste of money
As for sumps -- They only make sound if you either A) Want them to (I like the sound), or B) Set it up poorly.
Do some research, it doesn't matter what size tank you go with. I always recommend a sump for a multitude of reasons.
A 20g Long with a 20g Long sump (or standard 20g) would give you all the room you need for quality equipment. You could have a bustling little system full of small fish and the stability of more water, plus better equipment.
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So firstly I'll say I was using a single AI prime on a standard 10g tank that is my frag tank. Everything was doing poorly, including softies and mushrooms. I think with two AI primes everything would have been okay.. But not great. I'm running a single Radion XR15 G4 over my 10g frag tank now and everything has improved dramatically.
For a standard 10 gallon, or 20 gallon, I would advise at least a pair of AI Primes. A single one just isn't powerful enough, but a pair will have enough overlap to give the corals a good amount of light from both AI primes. Each AI PrimeHD has about an 8-10" effective area for lighting. That seems really small, I know -- It is.
For a 20g Long (30" long) I would advise 3 AI primes. At that cost, you could also get a single AI Hydra 52HD, which would be better, and give you all the lighting you need.
If you are truly sparing no expense, I would highly advise a radion. They really are that good, and they really are far more than a step above the AI lighting. At least until AI makes a new generation of lights and catches up.
For a standard 10 gallon, or 20 gallon, I would advise at least a pair of AI Primes. A single one just isn't powerful enough, but a pair will have enough overlap to give the corals a good amount of light from both AI primes. Each AI PrimeHD has about an 8-10" effective area for lighting. That seems really small, I know -- It is.
For a 20g Long (30" long) I would advise 3 AI primes. At that cost, you could also get a single AI Hydra 52HD, which would be better, and give you all the lighting you need.
If you are truly sparing no expense, I would highly advise a radion. They really are that good, and they really are far more than a step above the AI lighting. At least until AI makes a new generation of lights and catches up.
tiggs
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I agree with the others about 20g vs 10g. I'm in the same apartment boat as you and went with a acro dominant 14g mixed reef. Your equipment list also looks very good. Nanos can either be the easiest tanks you'll ever have or the most difficult, depending on what you're trying to grow. If you're going the acro route, then I'd highly recommend a controller, ATO, heater, and doser. I left comments below for each piece of equipment..
ATO - Absolutely necessary IMO with SPS in a nano
heater - My recommendation (and what I do) is use an oversized heater, so anytime my water dips below 78 degrees, it heats back up within seconds. I maintain a 0.1 daily fluctuation this way.
doser - ALK is obviously extremely important in SPS land, but it's near impossible to keep acros and dose 2-part by hand, unless you're breaking up your daily dose into 4+ doses. Personally, I don't like anything higher than a 0.3dkh daily fluctuation and acros are extremely sensitive to ALK swings. You'd obviously be dosing much less 2-part than a larger system, so you'd want to either dose micro amounts or dilute the 2-part components and dose larger amounts. I use a Neptune DOS, which has the ability to dose as little as 0.1ml, so I personally do the micro dosing thing with 0.2ml doses every 2 hours. Mag I dose by hand twice a week, since it doesn't shift as quickly as the other two.
controller - This will be the most debated bit. You'll hear the argument that there's not as much to automate or monitor on such a small tank, but I actually lean in the opposite direction. Fluctuations happen very quickly with the smaller water volume, so it's very helpful to know when something's wrong immediately. I also heavily rely on my controller for redundancy/failsafes. For example, my ATO is only given power for 15 seconds every 30 minutes, so if my ATO malfunctions and is stuck on, it would literally take about 2 days for my tank to overflow. I have a similar failsafe with my oversized heater. I still use the temp controller on the heater to dictate when the tank needs to be heated, but my Apex temp probe acts as a backup and cuts off power if it hits a certain temperature. In this scenario, both would have to fail for my tank to get fried. Controller definitely isn't something that's an absolute necessity, but it's very helpful if you're going to run a system that's extremely sensitive to fluctuations.
Lastly, I just wanted to provide some additional info on my setup/routine. I don't use a skimmer, since the ones that would fit in my back chambers don't perform well enough IMO to justify the real estate they'd be taking up. Because of this, I do a 20% water change weekly. I also use Chemi-Pure Blue and dose the Prodibio Nano Reef Kit every 15 days.
A lot of folks attempt to keep acros in a nano, but not many have success because it's much more difficult to keep super sensitive specimens in systems with greater fluctuations than their larger counterparts. I realize most people will say what I'm suggesting is overkill for a nano, but an acro dominant version is a completely different ballgame than a typical nano reef. It absolutely can be done though. Good luck.
ATO - Absolutely necessary IMO with SPS in a nano
heater - My recommendation (and what I do) is use an oversized heater, so anytime my water dips below 78 degrees, it heats back up within seconds. I maintain a 0.1 daily fluctuation this way.
doser - ALK is obviously extremely important in SPS land, but it's near impossible to keep acros and dose 2-part by hand, unless you're breaking up your daily dose into 4+ doses. Personally, I don't like anything higher than a 0.3dkh daily fluctuation and acros are extremely sensitive to ALK swings. You'd obviously be dosing much less 2-part than a larger system, so you'd want to either dose micro amounts or dilute the 2-part components and dose larger amounts. I use a Neptune DOS, which has the ability to dose as little as 0.1ml, so I personally do the micro dosing thing with 0.2ml doses every 2 hours. Mag I dose by hand twice a week, since it doesn't shift as quickly as the other two.
controller - This will be the most debated bit. You'll hear the argument that there's not as much to automate or monitor on such a small tank, but I actually lean in the opposite direction. Fluctuations happen very quickly with the smaller water volume, so it's very helpful to know when something's wrong immediately. I also heavily rely on my controller for redundancy/failsafes. For example, my ATO is only given power for 15 seconds every 30 minutes, so if my ATO malfunctions and is stuck on, it would literally take about 2 days for my tank to overflow. I have a similar failsafe with my oversized heater. I still use the temp controller on the heater to dictate when the tank needs to be heated, but my Apex temp probe acts as a backup and cuts off power if it hits a certain temperature. In this scenario, both would have to fail for my tank to get fried. Controller definitely isn't something that's an absolute necessity, but it's very helpful if you're going to run a system that's extremely sensitive to fluctuations.
Lastly, I just wanted to provide some additional info on my setup/routine. I don't use a skimmer, since the ones that would fit in my back chambers don't perform well enough IMO to justify the real estate they'd be taking up. Because of this, I do a 20% water change weekly. I also use Chemi-Pure Blue and dose the Prodibio Nano Reef Kit every 15 days.
A lot of folks attempt to keep acros in a nano, but not many have success because it's much more difficult to keep super sensitive specimens in systems with greater fluctuations than their larger counterparts. I realize most people will say what I'm suggesting is overkill for a nano, but an acro dominant version is a completely different ballgame than a typical nano reef. It absolutely can be done though. Good luck.
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Lots of good advices here, I’ll add a few thing from my experience (a nano and two pico). Size won’t matter for coral as long as you are above 3G . It will have a hard limit on your fish choices though. Nano tanks are much easier and cheaper if you stick to few things , I’m coming to those points next
- for sps , you’ll need strong flow , strong light , absolutely stable chemistry and proper alk/ca
- my recommendation will be stick to 10g ( because you chose it already) .
- go with kessil a160. Aim for a light that will give you 5 watts per gallon , and run it under 3watt per gallon for longevity
- go bare bottom. You will not have issues with cyano, first year of the tank will not be that painful. That will also allow cranking the flow , even close to sand bed (no detritus )
- dontbgo for refugium, in small size they are not that effective . Go for aquamax hob 1.5 or tunze or even aquatic life 115 (I use it, it’s bad, but works ) skimmer. Use intank media basket, run chemipure blue and filter floss
- do 10% water change weekly for first 9 months and 15% every two weeks , introduce sps during that phase
- smart ato micro . Period.
- feed reef roid only , no chunky food. Keep fish population at minimal
- go with live rock. Don’t go for dry rock
This is very basic, simple and tested multiple time. It has some pain(water change), but it address all the fundamental 4 mentioned in the first point. Focus on flow, light , stability (ato, temp, water change) and ca/alk level
- you will be able to deal with anything mechanically, this include aiptasia, gha, bubble algae . Design your rockscape in a way that you can disassemble the whole thing in two or three distinct pieces.
These are some of my tanks, for example, that uses similar techniques (but backed by my own controller ) .
There are several other ways to get the same result , I bet those works as well, but this is the one I’m using and have seen most reproducibility
- for sps , you’ll need strong flow , strong light , absolutely stable chemistry and proper alk/ca
- my recommendation will be stick to 10g ( because you chose it already) .
- go with kessil a160. Aim for a light that will give you 5 watts per gallon , and run it under 3watt per gallon for longevity
- go bare bottom. You will not have issues with cyano, first year of the tank will not be that painful. That will also allow cranking the flow , even close to sand bed (no detritus )
- dontbgo for refugium, in small size they are not that effective . Go for aquamax hob 1.5 or tunze or even aquatic life 115 (I use it, it’s bad, but works ) skimmer. Use intank media basket, run chemipure blue and filter floss
- do 10% water change weekly for first 9 months and 15% every two weeks , introduce sps during that phase
- smart ato micro . Period.
- feed reef roid only , no chunky food. Keep fish population at minimal
- go with live rock. Don’t go for dry rock
This is very basic, simple and tested multiple time. It has some pain(water change), but it address all the fundamental 4 mentioned in the first point. Focus on flow, light , stability (ato, temp, water change) and ca/alk level
- you will be able to deal with anything mechanically, this include aiptasia, gha, bubble algae . Design your rockscape in a way that you can disassemble the whole thing in two or three distinct pieces.
These are some of my tanks, for example, that uses similar techniques (but backed by my own controller ) .
There are several other ways to get the same result , I bet those works as well, but this is the one I’m using and have seen most reproducibility
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These are rock solid advices . The only thing I’ll add is that you can wait on dosing till your sps has grown significantly, just by doing weekly water changes
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Dang, I forgot to mention the most important things , get a rodi system. I live in a tiny apartment and use ro buddie. Get instant ocean reef crystal saltLots of good advices here, I’ll add a few thing from my experience (a nano and two pico). Size won’t matter for coral as long as you are above 3G . It will have a hard limit on your fish choices though. Nano tanks are much easier and cheaper if you stick to few things , I’m coming to those points next
- for sps , you’ll need strong flow , strong light , absolutely stable chemistry and proper alk/ca
- my recommendation will be stick to 10g ( because you chose it already) .
- go with kessil a160. Aim for a light that will give you 5 watts per gallon , and run it under 3watt per gallon for longevity
- go bare bottom. You will not have issues with cyano, first year of the tank will not be that painful. That will also allow cranking the flow , even close to sand bed (no detritus )
- dontbgo for refugium, in small size they are not that effective . Go for aquamax hob 1.5 or tunze or even aquatic life 115 (I use it, it’s bad, but works ) skimmer. Use intank media basket, run chemipure blue and filter floss
- do 10% water change weekly for first 9 months and 15% every two weeks , introduce sps during that phase
- smart ato micro . Period.
- feed reef roid only , no chunky food. Keep fish population at minimal
- go with live rock. Don’t go for dry rock
This is very basic, simple and tested multiple time. It has some pain(water change), but it address all the fundamental 4 mentioned in the first point. Focus on flow, light , stability (ato, temp, water change) and ca/alk level
- you will be able to deal with anything mechanically, this include aiptasia, gha, bubble algae . Design your rockscape in a way that you can disassemble the whole thing in two or three distinct pieces.
These are some of my tanks, for example, that uses similar techniques (but backed by my own controller ) .
There are several other ways to get the same result , I bet those works as well, but this is the one I’m using and have seen most reproducibility
tiggs
Active Member
Very good advice here. I also subscribe to the live rock train of thought and am a huge fan of Reef Roids.
To add on to the feeding bit, you have to be incredibly anal about making sure your fish eat pretty much every piece of food that goes into the tank and have CUC available to scarf down anything that's missed. Larger tanks have the luxury of wiggle room during feeding sessions, but nanos can have nutrients spike easily. Personally, I have an auto-feeder that drops between 5-7 mini pellets at noon, which my fish eat in about 10 seconds. Then I feed once manually per day, but I drop very small amounts in and I make sure they eat everything before dropping more in. I basically sit there with a turkey baster and make sure nothing goes into the overflow inlets. It sounds crazy, but every little bit helps when you're dealing with such a small volume of water and no skimmer.
To add on to the feeding bit, you have to be incredibly anal about making sure your fish eat pretty much every piece of food that goes into the tank and have CUC available to scarf down anything that's missed. Larger tanks have the luxury of wiggle room during feeding sessions, but nanos can have nutrients spike easily. Personally, I have an auto-feeder that drops between 5-7 mini pellets at noon, which my fish eat in about 10 seconds. Then I feed once manually per day, but I drop very small amounts in and I make sure they eat everything before dropping more in. I basically sit there with a turkey baster and make sure nothing goes into the overflow inlets. It sounds crazy, but every little bit helps when you're dealing with such a small volume of water and no skimmer.
Lots of good advices here, I’ll add a few thing from my experience (a nano and two pico). Size won’t matter for coral as long as you are above 3G . It will have a hard limit on your fish choices though. Nano tanks are much easier and cheaper if you stick to few things , I’m coming to those points next
- for sps , you’ll need strong flow , strong light , absolutely stable chemistry and proper alk/ca
- my recommendation will be stick to 10g ( because you chose it already) .
- go with kessil a160. Aim for a light that will give you 5 watts per gallon , and run it under 3watt per gallon for longevity
- go bare bottom. You will not have issues with cyano, first year of the tank will not be that painful. That will also allow cranking the flow , even close to sand bed (no detritus )
- dontbgo for refugium, in small size they are not that effective . Go for aquamax hob 1.5 or tunze or even aquatic life 115 (I use it, it’s bad, but works ) skimmer. Use intank media basket, run chemipure blue and filter floss
- do 10% water change weekly for first 9 months and 15% every two weeks , introduce sps during that phase
- smart ato micro . Period.
- feed reef roid only , no chunky food. Keep fish population at minimal
- go with live rock. Don’t go for dry rock
This is very basic, simple and tested multiple time. It has some pain(water change), but it address all the fundamental 4 mentioned in the first point. Focus on flow, light , stability (ato, temp, water change) and ca/alk level
- you will be able to deal with anything mechanically, this include aiptasia, gha, bubble algae . Design your rockscape in a way that you can disassemble the whole thing in two or three distinct pieces.
These are some of my tanks, for example, that uses similar techniques (but backed by my own controller ) .
There are several other ways to get the same result , I bet those works as well, but this is the one I’m using and have seen most reproducibility
I would just get an Apex/DOS and do automatic daily water changes. Even if you changed 10 gallons a week, IO salt purchased on sale would cost you less than $100/year. Brand new water every week. Can’t see how you could go wrong with that. You could probably skip a Skimmer with this arrangement. Jus a heater and circulation.
OP
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jnbrex
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Wow Ranjib, those pictures are amazing and your sps are so colorful! How big is the tank in the photo? And also, why do you recommend live rock over dry rock? I dealt with a lot of pests from using live rock in the past and absolutely don't want to have to deal with that again. And don't worry, I will definitely be purchasing an RO/DI system.
It seems like people disagree a lot on the amount of lighting necessary. Rakie advocated for 2 AI Prime HDs, which would be 110w of LEDs. On the other hand, Ranjib is running a single A160 (only 40 watts) and having great success, which is hard to argue with. I could also go with an EcoTech Marine Radion XR15w.
Thanks for the advice Tiggs. I plan on having a very light bioload so I'm not too concerned about overfeeding. I will get a doser at one point, but I don't plan on buying one now because I'm still so far away from actually having SPS in the tank.
I'm planning to buy a lot of the hardware today to take advantage of the Black Friday deals, so I'll keep everyone posted!
It seems like people disagree a lot on the amount of lighting necessary. Rakie advocated for 2 AI Prime HDs, which would be 110w of LEDs. On the other hand, Ranjib is running a single A160 (only 40 watts) and having great success, which is hard to argue with. I could also go with an EcoTech Marine Radion XR15w.
Thanks for the advice Tiggs. I plan on having a very light bioload so I'm not too concerned about overfeeding. I will get a doser at one point, but I don't plan on buying one now because I'm still so far away from actually having SPS in the tank.
I'm planning to buy a lot of the hardware today to take advantage of the Black Friday deals, so I'll keep everyone posted!
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1) It's about SPREAD, not about the power. To cover 20" of tank you will need more than one AI PrimeHD
2) An AI PrimeHD only runs about 30-35 watts once spectrum is set, so you will top out at around 60 watts
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it will take lot more space.
I run A360 over my 29G, which is 90W. AI, Kessil, Radion are all good choices. Kessil has better shimmer, and bit more pricy. But do stick to 3W/G rule.
The thing with dry rock is, I (and several others if you search forums) had hard time encrusting SPS on them. When I started, I was beginner and that probably complicated the issue. Unless properly cured, dry rock may leach stuff in your water, and small volume make its more prone to such issues. I think theres a Mike Paletta video on american reef channel that talks about similar things. They mentioned lack of beneficial bacteria etc. but it was not conclusive (why this happens), but it was clear that this is a common hiccup. There are other who have grow SPS straight on dry rock, but most of them are experienced and have done pretty rigorous work to maintain sps friendly water chemistry.
I also think instead of aiming for pest free tank you should aim for how to deal with them. As I said, you are likely to have them over course of years, if not rock, but as side effect of coral introduction or fish or critters. I think most of it can be dealth with manually, some other (like flatworm and bugs) can be dealt differently (like have a possum wrasse), and design for that. Pests are easy to deal with in nano tanks, chemistry and stability is the main challenge.
I think another most important thing while setting up the tank will be rockscape. Think about the corals you'll be introducing (you are likely to go with easier to keep sps first, such as tri color valida, green slimer, montipora etc), think their growth rate (like pociliopora, monitopora digitata will grow crazy), think about their growth pattern (branching ones are easier to manage, encrusting ones are very hard to remove), think about what will happen once one of them grows and shadows the other, think about their aggressiveness (like digitata's will sting and kill most other hard corals) etc.. I think this is where you need most thought, as this is something that will vary, rest (equipment, setup) is pretty standard.
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Thats a good suggestion. Kessil A160 is pretty narrow, and if your tank is rectangular, two AI prime will give much better spread
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Thos RO/DI system takes up lot of space (and money). RO/DI buddy is 60$ and you can fit the whole this below sink, and get 5G in 3 hours, every week.
I dont think that ATO is the best
, I know its awesome, but smart ATO micro is definitely better, its probably same reliable (if not more, since it has the auto-timeout) , but takes up lot less space.... probably 1/4th of this one
Thos RO/DI system takes up lot of space (and money). RO/DI buddy is 60$ and you can fit the whole this below sink, and get 5G in 3 hours, every week.
I dont think that ATO is the best
can’t beat the quality of the rodi unit and the quality of spectrapure membranes and filters. no other company matches their strict quality control nor do any of them hand source and mix their di resins in house. they are a water purification company. this is what they do.
their ato utilize pressure tubes instead of float switches (manual and optical) and there is little to no chance of failure. their pumps are peristaltic and have a 5 year warranty.
again, best of the best.
What I would do, no expense spared.
20L tank. I think the overflow on the side is a good idea. I would do a herbie for no sound. Sump either a 10g or 20L with a cabinet next to it for equipment.
Lighting I would do an orphek compact or orphek 24” light bars or a combination of both if no expense spared.
Skimmer I would use the smaller TUNZE DC skimmer (9001? I forget) but DC is the key.
Mostly would use kessil H160 as a fuge light in the sump with eheim heater.
Apex
Smart micro ATO
Either use DOS or the smart ATO automatic water change kit. Either one.
DOS doser for Randy’s hydroxide 2 part or another quality doser.
SICCE return.
3MP10
20L tank. I think the overflow on the side is a good idea. I would do a herbie for no sound. Sump either a 10g or 20L with a cabinet next to it for equipment.
Lighting I would do an orphek compact or orphek 24” light bars or a combination of both if no expense spared.
Skimmer I would use the smaller TUNZE DC skimmer (9001? I forget) but DC is the key.
Mostly would use kessil H160 as a fuge light in the sump with eheim heater.
Apex
Smart micro ATO
Either use DOS or the smart ATO automatic water change kit. Either one.
DOS doser for Randy’s hydroxide 2 part or another quality doser.
SICCE return.
3MP10
