Starting new tank, trying to decide on rock...

[texdoc77]

So I have been trying to decide on the rock I want to start my tank with and wanted a little advice. Here is how I am seeing the pros and cons of each choice. Let me know if I am over or under estimating the pros and cons. Or if you feel like I am just flat out wrong in my thinking. Some of you may remember my questions about curing rock and this is kind of an extension of that. I really, really don't want to introduce pests(vermetid snails, gorilla crabs, mantis shrimp) to my tank, but I really really don't want to deal with long term leaching of phosphates either. It would sound like live dry rock might be the best bet, but I'm not sure I'm sold on that either.

Live Wet Rock - Tampa Bay Saltwater
Pros - seeded with bacteria, fun critters, less phosphate leaching
Cons - expensive, bad critters, less ability to aquascape

Live Dry Rock
Pros - maybe some bacteria still viable, no bad critters, less phosphate leaching
Cons - no fun critters, not easy to find, don't love the paint job of purple/pink

Dry Rock
Pros - no bad critters, least expensive, lots of aquascaping possibilities
Cons - no bacteria, possible longterm phosphate leaching

Thanks in advance!

 

[Spare time]

Dry rock (or live dry) all the way. If the rock hasn't been used before then you won't have phosphate problems. You get 100% control over what enters your tank and you get no pests. It is much, much better in the long run. Bacterial additives and live sand will get the cycling going with ease.

 

[texdoc77]

Dry rock (or live dry) all the way. If the rock hasn't been used before then you won't have phosphate problems.

So the rock I am looking at mainly for dry rock is MacroRocks. From what I understand it was part of a reef "a long time ago". I actually have some sitting in some RODI right now, but I was under the impression it did have inorganic phosphate on the surface of the rock that would leach over time. This inorganic phosphate is part of the biome that dies on the rock way back when the waters receded and whatnot.

 

[mrbluewildcats]

This is the dry rock when I first started my tank, and I've been overfeeding just to try and get some phosphates. Finally getting some with 0.012 on my last test. Tank's been up for only 7 months though.

 

[Spare time]

So the rock I am looking at mainly for dry rock is MacroRocks. From what I understand it was part of a reef "a long time ago". I actually have some sitting in some RODI right now, but I was under the impression it did have inorganic phosphate on the surface of the rock that would leach over time. This inorganic phosphate is part of the biome that dies on the rock way back when the waters receded and whatnot.

Are you detecting any phosphates?

 

[DothanReefer]

I too am watching this thread as I'll be making the same decision in the coming weeks. I like the idea of live rock with fun critters tho. Is there anyway to ensure (via time or treatment) that any bad critters are dead/gone?

Thanks OP for starting this thread!

 

[S.Pepper]

Arcreef.com It's dry rock that is already cured. Great rock at a great price. I have it in my current system and getting ready to add it to my new system.

"Reef Stacker" Dry Rock, All in 1 Aquascaping Kits by ARC Reef, ALL NEW

Reef Stacker Dry Rock comes with EXTRA holes drilled & Connecting Rods! Easily make any amazing aquascape possible for your saltwater aquarium or reef tank.

arcreef.com

 

[saltyhog]

So I have been trying to decide on the rock I want to start my tank with and wanted a little advice. Here is how I am seeing the pros and cons of each choice. Let me know if I am over or under estimating the pros and cons. Or if you feel like I am just flat out wrong in my thinking. Some of you may remember my questions about curing rock and this is kind of an extension of that. I really, really don't want to introduce pests(vermetid snails, gorilla crabs, mantis shrimp) to my tank, but I really really don't want to deal with long term leaching of phosphates either. It would sound like live dry rock might be the best bet, but I'm not sure I'm sold on that either.

Live Wet Rock - Tampa Bay Saltwater
Pros - seeded with bacteria, fun critters, less phosphate leaching
Cons - expensive, bad critters, less ability to aquascape

Live Dry Rock
Pros - maybe some bacteria still viable, no bad critters, less phosphate leaching
Cons - no fun critters, not easy to find, don't love the paint job of purple/pink

Dry Rock
Pros - no bad critters, least expensive, lots of aquascaping possibilities
Cons - no bacteria, possible longterm phosphate leaching

Thanks in advance!

On your pros/cons on "live dry rock" I disagree with the pros. You are at the mercy of who ever had the rock before you (and made it "live"). You could get bad critters that way...ask me how I know! Also the colored rocks are not the only way to get "live" dry rock. I agree with you, I hate the purple dye job, especially when coraline algae is pretty darn easy to grow...at least for me.

Another possible con to both of the dry rock options is decreased biodiversity.....this may be a factor in problems like dinoflagellates and other nuisance algae.

 

[Spare time]

I too am watching this thread as I'll be making the same decision in the coming weeks. I like the idea of live rock with fun critters tho. Is there anyway to ensure (via time or treatment) that any bad critters are dead/gone?

Thanks OP for starting this thread

If the rock is dry there won't be any bad critters. Live rock will typically come with fun and bad critters. Tbh I think the cons outweigh the pros with most live rock unless the rock was cured/seeded in tanks dedicated to clean rock.

 

[ReeferSteve]

I would also say dry rock. You’re starting a new tank, there’s no point in doing something that could cause you to have problems right out of the gate. You can get some really obnoxious pests/problems from using rock that’s already established.

 

[texdoc77]

Are you detecting any phosphates?

I have not checked yet, I plan to this evening, I'll post results...

 

[texdoc77]

On your pros/cons on "live dry rock" I disagree with the pros. You are at the mercy of who ever had the rock before you (and made it "live"). You could get bad critters that way...ask me how I know! Also the colored rocks are not the only way to get "live" dry rock. I agree with you, I hate the purple dye job, especially when coraline algae is pretty darn easy to grow...at least for me.

Another possible con to both of the dry rock options is decreased biodiversity.....this may be a factor in problems like dinoflagellates and other nuisance algae.

What are the other live dry rock options, I have been looking but do not see many...

 

[User1]

Live Wet Rock - Tampa Bay Saltwater
Pros - seeded with bacteria, fun critters, less phosphate
Cons - expensive, bad critters, less ability to aquascape

No Phosphate. The rock sits in the ocean for 2 years or so. I forget exactly how Richard rotates through his various sites but I don't recall reading anywhere phosphate is a issue. You can visit his site while also searching.

Regarding Con's. Yes, very expensive. Mostly due to shipping cost due to weight / fully submerged over night air freight to prevent die off/mini cycle. Bad critters - visit his site. Main bad guy will be the gorilla crabs. Second would be mantis shrimp. You "will not" see aiptasia since it isn't local to the waters. Most bad actors can be caught within one to two weeks. I think the good will out weight the bad.

Adding live rock source:
KP Aquatics. Live rock. Expensive. Not as expensive as TBS but shipped to house I believe instead of air terminal. Not fully submerged so mini cycle / die off expected but not as bad as others. Still good rock and good and bad hitch hikers. Gorilla crabs, mantis shrimp, etc. Can check out their site, search, etc. TBS is number one but KP is also a great source to look at and probably #2 that people use. Also no phosphate issues since it is using mother nature to cure it.

Also worth noting that unless you have a strict, and I mean very strict, QT process for all things entering the tank you will have bad actors in time. I merged a 40 breeder into my 210 with 150 LBS of dry rock (Pukani). The existing tank had no visible signs over 6 years of aptasia. I merged them and a few months later without adding any corals I saw visible signs of aptasia. Can't explain it. But the theory I have of starting bare, clean, just doesn't pan out. Mother Nature is amazing and will do what she does.

So summary:

TBS, KP Aquatics, no phosphate that I've read about.

Dry Rock (Pukani in my example) will leach phosphate over time. The amount of phosphate release will depend on how it is prepped. Washing, bleach baths, LC dips, washed again, will set base for use. Acid bath takes anywhere from 12 to 25% of surface area off and makes it a lot more stable. Please reference BRS Tv for proof - they did a great video on it. Last option is just put it in tubs and cure it for 6 or more months on its own...

Hope this helps.

 

[texdoc77]

No Phosphate. The rock sits in the ocean for 2 years or so. I forget exactly how Richard rotates through his various sites but I don't recall reading anywhere phosphate is a issue. You can visit his site while also searching.

Regarding Con's. Yes, very expensive. Mostly due to shipping cost due to weight / fully submerged over night air freight to prevent die off/mini cycle. Bad critters - visit his site. Main bad guy will be the gorilla crabs. Second would be mantis shrimp. You "will not" see aiptasia since it isn't local to the waters. Most bad actors can be caught within one to two weeks. I think the good will out weight the bad.

Adding live rock source:
KP Aquatics. Live rock. Expensive. Not as expensive as TBS but shipped to house I believe instead of air terminal. Not fully submerged so mini cycle / die off expected but not as bad as others. Still good rock and good and bad hitch hikers. Gorilla crabs, mantis shrimp, etc. Can check out their site, search, etc. TBS is number one but KP is also a great source to look at and probably #2 that people use. Also no phosphate issues since it is using mother nature to cure it.

Also worth noting that unless you have a strict, and I mean very strict, QT process for all things entering the tank you will have bad actors in time. I merged a 40 breeder into my 210 with 150 LBS of dry rock (Pukani). The existing tank had no visible signs over 6 years of aptasia. I merged them and a few months later without adding any corals I saw visible signs of aptasia. Can't explain it. But the theory I have of starting bare, clean, just doesn't pan out. Mother Nature is amazing and will do what she does.

So summary:

TBS, KP Aquatics, no phosphate that I've read about.

Dry Rock (Pukani in my example) will leach phosphate over time. The amount of phosphate release will depend on how it is prepped. Washing, bleach baths, LC dips, washed again, will set base for use. Acid bath takes anywhere from 12 to 25% of surface area off and makes it a lot more stable. Please reference BRS Tv for proof - they did a great video on it. Last option is just put it in tubs and cure it for 6 or more months on its own...

Hope this helps.

Thanks boss!!

 

[Cell]

Not sure live dry rock is really a thing. Once its dry, it's dead and should be cured. Starting fresh I would use mostly dry rock, either brand new or dried, formerly live rock. I would use a small amount of live rock if I trusted the source.

 

[saltyhog]

Not sure live dry rock is really a thing. Once its dry, it's dead and should be cured. Starting fresh I would use mostly dry rock, either brand new or dried, formerly live rock. I would use a small amount of live rock if I trusted the source.

Agree. I assumed he meant originally dry rock that had been in another tank or cured/cycled with an ammonia source and bacteria added.

OP if that's not correct can you tell us what you mean by live dry rock?

 

[texdoc77]

Not sure live dry rock is really a thing. Once its dry, it's dead and should be cured. Starting fresh I would use mostly dry rock, either brand new or dried, formerly live rock. I would use a small amount of live rock if I trusted the source.

Well it's a thing, I mean you can go to amazon or BRS and buy it. That said, I do believe it is misnamed and misleading. My hope with live dry rock would be that it has been recently part of a reef system and thus has leached all its phosphate. Furthermore, now that it is dry, anything on it that is a potential "bad critter" is now dead. However, given some of the responses it does not appear to work exactly like that.

 

[texdoc77]

Agree. I assumed he meant originally dry rock that had been in another tank or cured/cycled with an ammonia source and bacteria added.

OP if that's not correct can you tell us what you mean by live dry rock?

You know this is what is challenging, I see these terms and it seems people agree on what they mean, but when you really get down to it, it's not always that cut and dry. Now, I don't know what I mean by live dry rock. LOL. What I really want is rock that does not have bad critters or leach phosphate. Really just a clean slate that I can slowly add life to.

At this point I think I am leaning towards dry rock, curing it and checking phosphate levels.

 

[saltyhog]

There are two types of dry rock usually available and neither are alive and both require curing/cycling.

One is rock that is from the ocean and is dried out. That rock will have lots of organics on it and will have to be cured in a container of salt water/heater/pump. The other is mined dry rock that usually is free of organics and can be cycled in the tank.

 

[texdoc77]

Full disclosure on my phosphate test. It is a couple years old and was stored in non temp controlled storage for a Texas summer. But it is what I had on hand, looks like 0.16ppm to me, LOL you decide!