Starting over

[Tristren]

A sad start to our reef tank adventure.
We began (after the tank cycled up with some good live rock) with two clowns and a long term plan. The QT tank was getting ready to go when we got the opportunity to get a Powder Blue Tang from a well know and stable. The fish was a deep blue 5" happy and healthy fish. The advice was to minimize stress (and because no issues had been seen on the fish) to move it straight into the DT.

That decision lead to a terrible series of ich (and or velvet and or brook) that ended up with the powder blue and both little clownfish dying. It was very depressing and we felt terrible.

But now we are left with a display tank that is follow and fish free and will be staying that way for 76 days. And we have QT tank that is at therapeutic levels of cupramine. In a couple so weeks will will start looking for our first fish to go back in, through quarantine of course.

So, now we will make sure we do things the right way and so a couple of questions / clarifications if you please:

1) Should I keep the "copper water" in the tank and just acclimate the new fish slowly in to that, or should I do a full water change on the QT?
If the latter, should I medicate prophylactically, or just watch?

2) Why 76 days? Specifically... as opposed to 60 or 80. What's the mechanism that determines that?

 

[NickNiz]

Not sure about #1...

However, I believe it is 76 days because that is the longest a strain of ich has survived without a host in scientific tests. So waiting more than 76 days would mean that you shouldn't have to worry about ich already being in the tank.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Yep^ I believe it was actually 72 days encysted, so there are a few more days there as a buffer.

As far as the medicated water, you'll want to remove the copper with water changes or carbon/cuprisorb. If you choose the prophylactically treat them, you'll want to raise your levels slowly...ideally over 4-5 days (unless they show symptoms of ich/velvet, then you want to raise it over 48 hours tops) Technically speaking though, you should break down and sterilize your QT between batches of fish.

The choice to treat is yours, but there has been issues of late due to suppliers having low-levels of copper in their holding takes which can suppress symptoms for quite some time (longer than many QT) Personally, every fish gets copper or CP, and PraziPro (dewormer)

 

[Big G]

Sorry about your fish. That's rough

 

[Tristren]

Not sure about #1...

However, I believe it is 76 days because that is the longest a strain of ich has survived without a host in scientific tests.

Ok, thanks. I gather that under normal circumstances the full life cycle is more like a week, so this is for the odd egg that lays dormant?

 

[Tristren]

The choice to treat is yours, but there has been issues of late due to suppliers having low-levels of copper in their holding takes which can suppress symptoms for quite some time (longer than many QT) Personally, every fish gets copper or CP, and PraziPro (dewormer)

That's interesting and something to consider.
How long do you quarantine for?

 

[Tristren]

Sorry about your fish. That's rough

Thanks. It really was depressing. Particularly because it looked like such a large healthy fish.

 

[Humblefish]

Ok, thanks. I gather that under normal circumstances the full life cycle is more like a week, so this is for the odd egg that lays dormant?

In most cases, ich's life cycle completes in 30 days or less. There are a few strains which can take longer - including the infamous 72 day variant. Water temperature may (or may not) be a factor as well.

So when using Cupramine, it is best to treat for 4 weeks and then observe for at least 2 weeks afterwards to ensure no parasites were missed. Even the 72 day variant slowly releases theronts from tomonts anywhere between 3-72 days. Meaning, its a continuous thing.

 

[Tristren]

In most cases, ich's life cycle completes in 30 days or less. There are a few strains which can take longer - including the infamous 72 day variant. Water temperature may (or may not) be a factor as well.

So when using Cupramine, it is best to treat for 4 weeks and then observe for at least 2 weeks afterwards to ensure no parasites were missed. Even the 72 day variant slowly releases theronts from tomonts anywhere between 3-72 days. Meaning, its a continuous thing.

Interesting, thanks.

So then that would be four weeks of treatment (in addition to the few days ramping up the dosage?)
Then two weeks observation in unmedicated water. Achieved through water changes?

So you quarantine for a minimum of 6-7 weeks?

Tony

 

[Humblefish]

So then that would be four weeks of treatment (in addition to the few days ramping up the dosage?)
Then two weeks observation in unmedicated water. Achieved through water changes?

So you quarantine for a minimum of 6-7 weeks?

4 weeks in copper (in addition to the few days spent ramping up) and then two rounds of Prazipro: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/prazipro.247598/

The time spent in Prazipro can be counted towards the post copper observation period.

 

[Tristren]

With a water change in between?

 

[Humblefish]

With a water change in between?

Yes. Also, Cuprisorb is great for pulling Cupramine out of the water.

 

[Tristren]

Yes. Also, Cuprisorb is great for pulling Cupramine out of the water.

Ok, thanks.
I have Cupramine and Prazipro. I have the Seachem copper test.

I also have Prime and Bio S. I have my QT set up with. 29g tank kit with a HoB filter and also a sponge filter that sat in my sump for a while (and moved over a while before the powder blue was added). It has some ovc elbows in it. I have a spare 10g and some buckets in case of emergency I suppose.

So I'll get some Cuprisorb as well.

Anything else you recommend having on hand?

 

[Barrett]

Seachem ammonia alert badge, also don't use prime while any medications are in the water as it can make them become more toxic, if ammonia builds up use water changes to remove it, but make sure your water change water is at therapeutic levels off copper before putting it in the tank.

 

[Tristren]

Seachem ammonia alert badge, also don't use prime while any medications are in the water as it can make them become more toxic, if ammonia builds up use water changes to remove it, but make sure your water change water is at therapeutic levels off copper before putting it in the tank.

Oh yes, I have one of those in the QT as well.
Thanks for the water change tip.


Tony

 

[Humblefish]

Anything else you recommend having on hand?

I consider these medications to be the "must haves" for QT: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/#post-2445601

 

[ngoodermuth]

Seachem ammonia alert badge, also don't use prime while any medications are in the water as it can make them become more toxic, if ammonia builds up use water changes to remove it, but make sure your water change water is at therapeutic levels off copper before putting it in the tank.

This, whatever you do...do not dose prime with copper. It changes the form and makes it 10x more toxic.

 

[Tristren]

I consider these medications to be the "must haves" for QT: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/#post-2445601

Thanks very much, that's very helpful.

I'll to stock up. A manageable list, and I'm sure I will be happy I have them when I need them.