Starting to see a GHA Outbreak, and need some advice

Siberwulf · Sep 13, 2021

Hey all,

I'm starting to see a thin fuzz starting to appear on rocks, which coincides nicely with me putting fish in the tank.

Here's some pertinent info:

90g DT, 29g Sump - Total water vol: 90g
Two clowns, feeing brine shrimp twice a day, about 1/16 of a cube (they eat almost all of it when I feed them)
Have a CUC in there, half a dozen snails, few more hermits
A few LPS frags growing, coraline is spreading really well.
Running a Fuge
- Got some Red Ogo in it (through it would hold shape better than the Chaeto Confetti I had before)
- Lights run about 12 hours right now, reduced capacity for acclimation (AI Prime Fuge)
DT lights run 11 hours a day right now (3x AI Prime 16s on BRS recommended settings)
Reef Octopus 152-S running most of the day - off from 8am to 12am
Test Kits (all Red Sea):
- 0 Nitrate (duh, it's getting eaten by the GHA and Ogo)
- 0.04 - .08 Phosphates (stupid color wheel test)
- 7.5 Alk (this is dropping even though I'm adding Alk Booster occasionally to try to keep it up)

Now I will say I'm SUPER paranoid about dropping down my nutrients too much. Had a nasty, nasty fight with dinos and while they're not visible know, I know they're in there..lurking...waiting to come back. And I don't want to do that again.

I know I should physically remove as much as I can, but from a chemistry POV, what should I be doing?

Quietman · Sep 13, 2021

What GHA? LOL. Seriously, that's not too bad but I understand your concerns and a good time to start looking at management (probably never getting rid of it).

The fuge you have with the macroalgae may not be optimal to out compete ALL the GHA. GHA just takes up nutrients too fast (only faster is cyano). But keeping the fuge maximized and removing excess by hand can really keep it manageable.

I would think a tang would also help at this stage to keep it under control before it starts expanding and your tanks big enough.

Your lighting schedule is a bit aggressive with not many corals but if you're keeping it low intensity - might be ok.

Your feeding sounds very reasonable and agree don't go to zero, but with a fuge and algae in DT you may read very close to zero safely due to speed of uptake. I had dinos and run zero to barely detectable with ATS/GHA in DT and they haven't returned (have a UV as well though).

Don't do what I did and get so frustrated when it started getting out of control that I stopped hand removal for a month. Big mistake. Took me months to recover from that little 4 week episode and get it manageable again. Still looking for a "cure".

LiveFreeAndReef · Sep 13, 2021

A blenny would help keep that algae at bay

Oldreefer44 · Sep 13, 2021

Quietman said:
What GHA? LOL. Seriously, that's not too bad but I understand your concerns and a good time to start looking at management (probably never getting rid of it).

The fuge you have with the macroalgae may not be optimal to out compete ALL the GHA. GHA just takes up nutrients too fast (only faster is cyano). But keeping the fuge maximized and removing excess by hand can really keep it manageable.

I would think a tang would also help at this stage to keep it under control before it starts expanding and your tanks big enough.

Your lighting schedule is a bit aggressive with not many corals but if you're keeping it low intensity - might be ok.

Your feeding sounds very reasonable and agree don't go to zero, but with a fuge and algae in DT you may read very close to zero safely due to speed of uptake. I had dinos and run zero to barely detectable with ATS/GHA in DT and they haven't returned (have a UV as well though).

Don't do what I did and get so frustrated when it started getting out of control that I stopped hand removal for a month. Big mistake. Took me months to recover from that little 4 week episode and get it manageable again. Still looking for a "cure".

Agree but would also ad that your tank looks fairly new. If so, it will go through several "mini-cycles" as it gradually reaches an equilibrium. Suggest concentrating on water quality consistency. There is a tendency to overreact to what are really minor issues thus making them into major issues ourselves.

brandon429 · Sep 13, 2021

nice job acting early

rare, most wait until complete bearding of every square inch, yours is impeccably clean. burn it off directly outside the tank until you find a less barbaric means.

Quietman · Sep 13, 2021

Oldreefer44 said:
Agree but would also ad that your tank looks fairly new. If so, it will go through several "mini-cycles" as it gradually reaches an equilibrium. Suggest concentrating on water quality consistency. There is a tendency to overreact to what are really minor issues thus making them into major issues ourselves.

Agree with you as well. My experience though is that managing nutrients/water quality doesn't prevent something as efficient in uptake as GHA from spreading if it wants. Managing before it gets out of hand is always best.

That said...I agree most tanks have some GHA and it never goes beyond 'some'. In those cases trying to completely get rid of it probably causes more issues than it's worth. Some though, have huge breakouts (yours truly) and yet both have great water quality and low nutrients.

Siberwulf · Sep 13, 2021

Quietman said:
What GHA? LOL. Seriously, that's not too bad but I understand your concerns and a good time to start looking at management (probably never getting rid of it).

The fuge you have with the macroalgae may not be optimal to out compete ALL the GHA. GHA just takes up nutrients too fast (only faster is cyano). But keeping the fuge maximized and removing excess by hand can really keep it manageable.

I would think a tang would also help at this stage to keep it under control before it starts expanding and your tanks big enough.

Your lighting schedule is a bit aggressive with not many corals but if you're keeping it low intensity - might be ok.

Your feeding sounds very reasonable and agree don't go to zero, but with a fuge and algae in DT you may read very close to zero safely due to speed of uptake. I had dinos and run zero to barely detectable with ATS/GHA in DT and they haven't returned (have a UV as well though).

Don't do what I did and get so frustrated when it started getting out of control that I stopped hand removal for a month. Big mistake. Took me months to recover from that little 4 week episode and get it manageable again. Still looking for a "cure".

This is good info. I'm really on the fence about tangs. I love the look of them, but there's that whole "omg your tank is only 48" long, tangs don't belong in there!!! I've seen them in smaller (doesn't make it right...) Is a 90g ok for one?

For lighting, where would you back that off? in the DT? Here's the profiles I have:

It's a little tough to get the small stuff out (what's in the pics) but there was some a bit more on the powerheads (gyres) which I did pull out and remove. Hopefully this helps dent it a little bit. Just don't want it getting a foothold.

Siberwulf · Sep 13, 2021

Oldreefer44 said:
Agree but would also ad that your tank looks fairly new. If so, it will go through several "mini-cycles" as it gradually reaches an equilibrium. Suggest concentrating on water quality consistency. There is a tendency to overreact to what are really minor issues thus making them into major issues ourselves.

It's fairly new (8 months, including a 3 month fight with dinos) I'm trying to use some metered steps: Keep an eye on feeding, regular testing, skimmer tuning and light adjustments. Not exactly sure which, if any, of these is going to help, but it's been largely pretty balanced until now, it feels light :/

brandon429 · Sep 13, 2021

the cool white/down by a lot imo.

14 foot reef · Sep 13, 2021

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Quietman · Sep 13, 2021

You're right...the bigger tangs would be stressed unless they're in 180+ but the smaller tangs - squaretail bristlenose and maybe a yellow tang would be fine. I don't think anyone would say anything about either one in a 48" long 90.

Siberwulf · Sep 14, 2021

brandon429 said:
the cool white/down by a lot imo.

Which one would you reduce? The Sump or the DT?

brandon429 · Sep 14, 2021

shining directly over the rocks/the white spectrum we find it helps control algae for many to reduce it lower/experiment with idea levels

Garf · Sep 14, 2021

Siberwulf said:
Hey all,

I'm starting to see a thin fuzz starting to appear on rocks, which coincides nicely with me putting fish in the tank.

Here's some pertinent info:

90g DT, 29g Sump - Total water vol: 90g

Two clowns, feeing brine shrimp twice a day, about 1/16 of a cube (they eat almost all of it when I feed them)

Have a CUC in there, half a dozen snails, few more hermits

A few LPS frags growing, coraline is spreading really well.

Running a Fuge

Got some Red Ogo in it (through it would hold shape better than the Chaeto Confetti I had before)

Lights run about 12 hours right now, reduced capacity for acclimation (AI Prime Fuge)

DT lights run 11 hours a day right now (3x AI Prime 16s on BRS recommended settings)

Reef Octopus 152-S running most of the day - off from 8am to 12am

Test Kits (all Red Sea):

0 Nitrate (duh, it's getting eaten by the GHA and Ogo)

0.04 - .08 Phosphates (stupid color wheel test)

7.5 Alk (this is dropping even though I'm adding Alk Booster occasionally to try to keep it up)

Now I will say I'm SUPER paranoid about dropping down my nutrients too much. Had a nasty, nasty fight with dinos and while they're not visible know, I know they're in there..lurking...waiting to come back. And I don't want to do that again.

I know I should physically remove as much as I can, but from a chemistry POV, what should I be doing?

More snails required and an urchin or 2 would mow that bit of fuzz down, all without depriving the tank of nutrients and light.

Siberwulf · Sep 14, 2021

Garf said:
More snails required and an urchin or 2 would mow that bit of fuzz down, all without depriving the tank of nutrients and light.

I do have a halloween urchin ordered, but it's going to be a few weeks before it gets here. I did clean off the glass (I had let it grow on there to out-compete the dinos) and hoping that it forces them back onto the rocks to help. Thanks!

brandon429 · Sep 14, 2021

that down adjust doesn't deprive anything, its specifically used by thousands of successful tanks at zero. we're keeping some. snails target your intended invasion about as often as white light drop alone fixes it/ but as a combo with a clean sandbed you might have some strong % control before anything takes over.

that's not to say it will, maybe its a low level common growth associated with tank maturity, agreed it may be.

but all the real invasions in the nuisance algae forum also had this choice phase too, and skipped it.

they were told all uglies go away and turn into tank X in time

(and that's why we have endless work jobs there, daily)

*nobody says you have to make the full tank in control always, you can force 1 or 2 rocks to comply at all times, independent of indirect measures you take on the rest of the tank.

the hobby would lose a lot less tanks to total invasion/dislike of how it looks if they'd keep one or two decent chunks of rocks in full compliance, at all times, no matter what. that's your road map to the rest of the tank being saved, if ever needed.

nobody in the algae forum did that, we use it in remediation long after the rip clean. there are sooo many ways of making two rocks always look like you want them to. Pretend someone offered you fifty thousand dollars to devise a method where only two rocks in your setup have 0% algae growth for the rest of the tank's life, only two. Do what you will

use whatever that method would be for you. I know what mine is

the concern becomes:

but you're always going to have to cheat it clean then

no, you don't. My entire left rock top to bottom is one solid favia, there's no scraping or peroxide burning on it, the coral flesh does total rejection of algae. those growths you have above are never going to happen in the mouth of a brain coral, for example. more coral flesh means more exclusion zones.

and long before it was covered in coral flesh, coralline was rejecting the algae in my pico.

the price for starting with no coralline is secondary invasions get the vital space a while, if you allow it.

Siberwulf · Sep 14, 2021

brandon429 said:
that down adjust doesn't deprive anything, its specifically used by thousands of successful tanks at zero. we're keeping some.

Yeah, I realize there's always going to be some. It was just alarm that it seemed to pop overnight (maybe I'm not ultra observant?) and I am trying to at least mellow it a bit with baby tweaks. I'm not going to drop in some NeoNitro or Phos reducer. Just want to see if little nudges can keep it less "observable" is all. fwiw, I'm ok with running a dirty-ish tank (I have no physical filters, since I'm going full triton method)