STEAMING mad at my LFS....

[erikjphillips]

My step brother just started a tank and does not have an RO system but i do, so i make water for him. Today when he came down to pick up water he told me how the LFS sold him a really cool fish for his 30 gallon tank that has been up and running for 3 months top, also has no refugium. i thought maybe its an ORA and will take some flake food. nope, he paid 16$ for it, in a mall pet shop. i plan on confronting the owner about it for a few reasons, 1 he's a liar. 2, he has ZERO concern for the animals that he is selling. 3, this has to in some way be illegal if he is claiming that its an ORA fish. So my thought is this, is there any way to obtain "ORA" mandarins other than through ORA. If not, would it be beneficial to notify ORA of this? This is the same guy that sold me a lunar wrasse and said he was a friendly fish. I now read up on EVRY thing i buy. Its gotten to the point that i dont shop there anymore, its 2 miles from my house. Instead i drive 2+ hrs for coral.

 

[Reef Breeders Verified Sponsor]

ORA discontinued mandarins a while ago from what I heard. Defenitely not the fish for an immature nano and a new aquarist.

 

[Reef Breeders Verified Sponsor]

I would give that guy some advice for sure!

 

[erikjphillips]

He has a facebook page, figured he shouldnt be the only one to hear my displeasure............

 

[Loki]

I don't understand... He was sold an "ORA mandarin"? It isn't the sellers responsibility to make sure the buyer has an acceptable home for the fish. My LFS has a sweet lips that they will sell to anyone that wants to pay for it. If your saying he is claiming to sell something that he doesn't have the ORA then that's one thing, but in my opinion it's the buyers responsibility to research the fish first.

 

[erikjphillips]

I agree that its the buyers responsibility to research first. However, he's very new to the hobby, not even 3 months. My issue is that the LFS owner clearly has no regard for the well being of the animal. i just this its a question of ethics at this point.

 

[El Fantasma]

Car dealerships will sell cars to bad drivers, it's all about the money.. nothing you can really do about it unless they violated the law, even then.. is it worth the hassle?

 

[Ace25]

1. How is this any different from virtually every LFS out there? I have never been in a LFS that wouldn't sell a mandarin to anyone that asks for one and tell them it is a great fish. Even the few LFS I think would be above that type of behaviour, I have seen them do it. 2. No hobbyist can purchase from ORA, only LFS can, so it is within the realm of posibility the LFS could sell them... BUT... not for $16. IIRC the ORA mandarins went for around $80ea.

Honestly, I wouldn't spend any energy at all telling the LFS off because they won't care and won't stop what they are doing. They must know how hard those fish are to keep (a LFS would have to be so clueless to that fact I can't see how any can claim they didn't know) and it is in their best interest to get them out the door as fast as possible before they die. Yes, it really sucks for the fish but unfortunately when they are priced as one of the cheapest SW fish and are so colorful they are going to sell fast regardless of what anyone else says. A LFS can try and only sell them to people they think are qualified, but you try telling the person that isn't qualified they are not allowed to buy a fish at a LFS.. they will lose customers so quick if they started policing their sales like that. While I really wish they would do exactly that, I know it is just not possible to do, especially in a niche hobby and a down economy.

In the end, it is up to 1 person, and ONLY 1 person to decide what fish is suitable for their tank, and that is the owner of the tank. If the owner can't be bothered to research items before they buy them, they only have themselves to blame because no one forced a fish sale on them.

If you go to www.orafarm.com their picture they display is of a mandarin, so I am pretty sure they still sell them. Yup:
http://www.orafarm.com/products/fish/dragonets/

 

[mfdrookie516]

I understand where you're coming from... but IMO it's no different than a car salesman selling a corvette as a teens first vehicle. Probably a terrible idea, but at the end of the day, the customer wants something and it's bad business not to sell it to them. "The customer is always right" sometimes bites you in the butt. Again, JMO

 

[Loki]

I agree. There are tons of stores out there that don't have a care in the world for the animals they sell. Just the money that can be made from doing so. Jut like a car salesman selling a car to an underage kid that doesn't have a license. They would do it every time if they have the money. It sucks but it's all about the money. I wouldn't waste my time with the store. Just have your step brother not go back there. Hopefully you can find a home for the mandarin. It can survive in the 30 gallon. Just start dumping pods in.

 

[wysiwyg]

unfortunatley most lfs only care about the money not the welfare of the critters they sell unfortunate but true. i have been to a few that do ask questions and make sure it will fit the tank but most dont

 

[returnofsid]

I do have an excellent LFS that will actually refuse to sell fish to people, but that's an exception to the rule.

In this case, the LFS really didn't do anything wrong.

#1. How do you know that the LFS didn't have access to an ORA Mandarin? Could have been purchased direct from ORA, in the past. Could have been purchased from another hobbyist...

#2. It's not an LFS responsibility to 'babysit' us hobbyists, even new hobbyists. A new hobbyist goes into an LFS, sees an amazing fish that they just "must have," and what's the responsibility of the LFS? An LFS is a business who's primary responsibility is to stay in business.

 

[Aquaph8]

Another thing, ORA mandarins arent any different than any other mandarin other than they were bred in captivity. Its still very hit or miss wether they will eat anything other than live food especially in the begining. I think its great for people to support captive breeding but I think many have had way too high expectations with these little guys.

 

[WesF]

Selling a fish and calling it an ORA mandarin when it really is not is fraud. So yes, the LFS is scummy.

Since people are using car salesman analogies it's like someone selling you a Chrysler 300 and telling you it's a Bently.

Taking advantage of an unsuspecting newbie to make a sale is shady, period. Yes, the customer should always research what they are buying. But that doesn't make the LFS any less shady. It gives LFS's a bad reputations. There are good ones out there who educate their customers and won't sell something that has a poor chance of survival.

 

[Ace25]

Since people are using car salesman analogies it's like someone selling you a Chrysler 300 and telling you it's a Bently.

No, it really isn't anything like that at all. It is like a car salesman selling you a Chrysler 300 and telling you it is a Chrysler 300. A better analogy would be to say the car salesman told you the car was built on the lot by expert car builders vs in a factory when it really wasn't. It is still the same car (fish), it just didn't come from the source you thought.

 

[WesF]

No, it really isn't anything like that at all. It is like a car salesman selling you a Chrysler 300 and telling you it is a Chrysler 300. A better analogy would be to say the car salesman told you the car was built on the lot by expert car builders vs in a factory when it really wasn't. It is still the same car (fish), it just didn't come from the source you thought.

ORA is a brand name. And an ORA mandarin is the only tank bred mandarin you can buy and sells for about 4-5x more than a wild caught mandarin. So my analogy is correct.

Looks similar but very different

 

[debben69]

My lfs is garbage too believe me, I know your pain. But ora does still have Mandarins and they are guaranteed to accept dry food.

 

[Ace25]

ORA is a brand name. And an ORA mandarin is the only tank bred mandarin you can buy and sells for about 4-5x more than a wild caught mandarin. So my analogy is correct.

Looks similar but very different

So if I take a wild mandarin and an ORA mandarin and do DNA tests on it your telling me they will come back as a different species of fish?

 

[erikjphillips]

So if I take a wild mandarin and an ORA mandarin and do DNA tests on it your telling me they will come back as a different species of fish?

The difference is in how the fish is raised and the ability to keep the fish without added equipment (fuge for smaller tanks). The bottom line is the LFS 100% knew what size tank he has and knew very well what his experence level is. It astounds me that someone who operates a store that targets such a small demographic would be willing to lose a customer over a 10$ profit. This isnt the first time he pulled this with mandarins either, he had one about a year ago that he swore was ORA and was only 15$, when i asked him to feed it flake he said he wouldnt and that his fish only ate live brine, which is BS, ive seen him feed flake. end result is i wont shop there, i'll go to petco for drygoods. and word will get around.

 

[WesF]

So if I take a wild mandarin and an ORA mandarin and do DNA tests on it your telling me they will come back as a different species of fish?

No but that is irrelevant. Tank bred vs. wild caught are very different for a number of reasons.

One car was manufactured by Bently and one was not.

One fish was manufactured (bred) by ORA and one was not.