Stirring up substrate - y/n?

[RaymondL]

I have contradicting information, so wanted to see what folks here say about the dangers of stirring up the exiting substrate - some say doing so will cause a complete tank crash due to trapped gases under the substrate being released. Isn't that the same as putting in a gravel cleaner of some sort to stir up and remove detritus on the substrate level?

 

[Nano_Man]

Stirring up your sand imo could give you a little ammonia spike . But a gravel cleaner works on the sand it is on and sucks the bad rotting material away do this when water changing. Buy some snails the burrow into the sand and turn it over . Also blow all your rock off when doing a water change . Sometimes moving rock around can set off a ammonia spike. Hope this helps you.

 

[sc50964]

@brandon429

 

[Waters]

It depends on how deep the sand is and how long it has remained untouched.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

If you’ve never touched your sandbed stirring it up isn’t the best idea. I would vacuum it first to get rid of all that old nasty gunk that has accumulated. However, once you’ve done that stirring it up and bubble scrubbing is a great tool in terms of preventing buildup of detritus.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

how deep is your sandbed? If you only have 1"-2" of sand, no need to worry, that little bit of sand isn't enough to create the aerobic layers and nothing will happen by stirring the sand.

Deep sand beds (4"+) create the aerobic layers, where the lower anoxic layers have dentrification happening. Then you can't disturb the bottom of the sand. Even then it takes a long time for tanks to create the aerobic layers, if the tank is relatively new, nothing will happen.

Article on how sandbeds really work:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-06/rs/feature/index.php

 

[brandon429]

Shimeks article is how oceans work, not reef tanks. We can’t use his article to: de-age a reef tank and reverse old tank syndrome, or relocate 500 reefs without killing any of them, or change out a reef tanks sandbed all at once without killing it or to fix a sandbed so a reef tank invasion goes away

That article is useless for reefing and fantastic for oceanography

#5 post is my favorite summary

 

[RaymondL]

how deep is your sandbed? If you only have 1"-2" of sand, no need to worry, that little bit of sand isn't enough to create the aerobic layers and nothing will happen by stirring the sand.

Deep sand beds (4"+) create the aerobic layers, where the lower anoxic layers have dentrification happening. Then you can't disturb the bottom of the sand. Even then it takes a long time for tanks to create the aerobic layers, if the tank is relatively new, nothing will happen.

Article on how sandbeds really work:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-06/rs/feature/index.php

Thanks - sandbed is 1.25 inches high and the tank is just 1 year old at the moment. Appreciate the help!

 

[Reef Wizard]

I blow off my rocks with baster and siphon the sand bed weekly with my water changes. My sand bed is 1 inch. I mostly do it for my viewing pleasure. but also to get any detritus leftovers

 

[stoney7713]

Here's my take, let your utilitarian crew do it. Either gobys, shrimp, snails, starfish, cucumber whatever, let them do the work.

I had a pistol shrimp steal a frag in a small tank, 4 months old, live rock. I moved a few rocks to get it and had a diatom then a dino outbreak. Both were short and the sand was fairly clean already. But it was enough to upset things.

In my large tank I have a crew that keeps the sand clean and I don't touch it much.

If you must clean your sand and don't do it regularly, do small sections once a week so you don't throw off the balance of things.

 

[Doons32]

I'd recommend getting a sand sifting goby to do the work for you.

 

[Gill the 3rd]

If you have a gravel cleaner maybe do the first 1/3 of the sand bed, wait a week and do the next 1/3 and so on. Your sandbed isn't that deep or old so I cant imagine you have a lot of buildup in there. I use conches in my tank and they do a great job of sifting through the sand bed. Sand sifting Starfish are also a good option.

 

[brandon429]

I did see once on video a sand sifting goby was able to keep a sandbed nearly as cloud free and being totally rinsed out clean and that was amazing. they dug in deep for the drop test too, an entire handful lifted and dropped on video didn't cloud. they sure are busy buggers

 

[sc50964]

I did see once on video a sand sifting goby was able to keep a sandbed nearly as cloud free and being totally rinsed out clean and that was amazing. they dug in deep for the drop test too, an entire handful lifted and dropped on video didn't cloud. they sure are busy buggers

But no sand sifting starfish, right?

 

[brandon429]

nope/ too slow to kick up anything the currents can grab. deposits waste pellets into the sand, a producer of waste not a consumer of it. animals that eat detritus also expel it and very little mass is used from it, more waste pellets emit into the sand

a slight reduction in nutrients in each pass happens across trophic zones but actually having a reef tank with the right biota to eat up each phase of casting isn't practical, so mostly the beds become waste sinks using the old ways. the sum total of most reef tank sandbeds at year 5 we can see in the history of forum posts are aged and causing issues. diving fish/wrasses/diamond gobies et al / busy bodies I can see truly do export work.

 

[jda]

Dr Ron gave his advice for people who did not want to disturb the denitrification process. If you don't care about this, then you can vacuum as much as you want. I would not stir the sand and let the stuff settle into the tank - make sure that the gunk goes out the hose and down the drain.

If you do care about denitrification and want to vacuum sand, then do small chunks every so often. About every four years, I do 1/4 of mine every quarter. This gives time for cirtters and the bacteria to repopulate before I move on to the next section.

If you are just talking about doing the top little bit, then that is totally different and do what you want.

Most of the blank statements in this thread without nuance to depth or desired outcome assume too much, IMO.

 

[douglasbnyhof]

Stirring up your sand imo could give you a little ammonia spike . But a gravel cleaner works on the sand it is on and sucks the bad rotting material away do this when water changing. Buy some snails the burrow into the sand and turn it over . Also blow all your rock off when doing a water change . Sometimes moving rock around can set off a ammonia spike. Hope this helps you.

Dr Ron gave his advice for people who did not want to disturb the denitrification process. If you don't care about this, then you can vacuum as much as you want. I would not stir the sand and let the stuff settle into the tank - make sure that the gunk goes out the hose and down the drain.

If you do care about denitrification and want to vacuum sand, then do small chunks every so often. About every four years, I do 1/4 of mine every quarter. This gives time for cirtters and the bacteria to repopulate before I move on to the next section.

If you are just talking about doing the top little bit, then that is totally different and do what you want.

Most of the blank statements in this thread without nuance to depth or desired outcome assume too much, IMO.

That’s a tough one. I’d say no. Don’t stir that up. There’s tons of critters in the sand and detritus would go all over the rocks. Hard pass imo.

 

[Idech]

It depends on how deep the sand is and how long it has remained untouched.

Yes, that.

With sand, you either disturb it regularly (at least every 4-6 weeks) or you don’t. If it’s never been disturbed and you do it over a large surface the bacteria dye off will be too great for your microbiom to manage.

Superficial brushing is not the same. It’s going deep that’s a problem.

I’ve killed all my fish once making this mistake and I’ll never do it again.

 

[nothing_fancy]

Having some nessarius snails is a good idea for sifting the sand. Personally I just blow the top layer off with a baster once a week when I clean my glass. Makes the sand look refreshed and hasn't caused any problems for me. I use coral snow when I do this and I think that helps a bit as far as cleaning maintenance goes.

 

[jda]

Most of what is in the sand is inert and not what people consider detritus like poop. Bacteria and micro fauna will have removed every bit of usable stuff in a mature tank. That grayish leftover does gum up the works in the sand and I do like to remove it. Not removing it can make the water harder to pass though the levels and the whole sand bed does not function as well. I doubt that anybody wants that gunk anywhere else in their tank.