STN Issues :(

[BfishLpond78]

So I have been noticing that my millis and all long polyp SPS are starting STN from the base up, very slowly to I might add. Now first thought was...oh no...the dreaded AEFW...so the first thing I did was remove the coral and do a Bayer dip an look for worms or something to fly off...so I did that....nothing....not even a dead pod. So I did the next thing...test water params...

DT - 80 gallon shallow
Refugium - 50 gallon breeder (various macros) & 12 gallon purple reef lobster refugium (various Macros) all tied into 80 gallon tank.
Skimmer - Skimz SK181
Lighting - 8 bulb Tek Light

Alk - 8.4 (Hanna checker)
Calcium - 430 (Red Sea)
PO4 - 0ppm (Hanna checker)
Nitrate - 0ppm (Salifert)
Mag - 1490 (Red Sea)

Could it be my system is too clean...no way, GFO is offline and I feed a lot, colors are all good. All other SPS look fine. Have some acros that show no sign of this issue. A member of my local club mentioned that when NO3 and PO4 or low, that shaded areas will start to receed, I have noticed this on some of the pieces showing the stress. I do run a large refugium that has several varietys of Macros, chaeto, halimedia, calupera profilfera, and dragons breath.

Also, green psammacora (spelling, fuzzy short polyps coral, SPS) is also showing signs of this and it's not a type of acro.

So does anyone else have any ideas? As this is really heartbreaking, I've snipped a bunch of pieces already in effort to save them.

One last fact, this started a few weeks ago with a wild red milli, I've had the piece for months and it was growing well and encrusting then out of no where this all happened, I cut off what I could and the piece is still alive.

What would be the safest way to bring up PO4 and NO3?

 

[jackson6745]

IMO the issue could be the opposite. High organics.
If you can grow macros, you are not starving your reef to the point where STN would be an issue.
Whenever I had STN issues, it was always during a time when I had a high bioload, or shown signs of high po4 even though testkits read "low nutrient".

 

[BfishLpond78]

Is there a way to measure the high organic nutrients, I know they are not dissolved into the water, but didn't know if there was a way.

The macros don't grow terribly fast, but I would assume that if my system was too clean they would wither away...

 

[mcarroll]

Well, depends on the coral, of course, but many corals will shade their base as a natural consequence of growing larger. Another side effect is that the flow at the base/center of the coral also gets less and less.

Both of these are (or will be) likely contributors.

Do you have many fish? How much do you feed?

-Matt

 

[jackson6745]

Is there a way to measure the high organic nutrients, I know they are not dissolved into the water, but didn't know if there was a way.

The macros don't grow terribly fast, but I would assume that if my system was too clean they would wither away...

Not that I know of. Just a general observation of your system. Do you have a pic of the tank that you can post?

 

[BfishLpond78]

Well, depends on the coral, of course, but many corals will shade their base as a natural consequence of growing larger. Another side effect is that the flow at the base/center of the coral also gets less and less.

Both of these are (or will be) likely contributors.

Do you have many fish? How much do you feed?

-Matt

I should have mentioned that some of these are frags, they have been in the tank for many months but are still on the smaller side. There should be plenty of flow in the tank as everything is being moved by 2 MP40's on 40-50% reef crest.

I did have a bunch of fish, but I actually just removed 3 this weekend to make room for a new one (I believe i have 10 or 11 fish now). I usually feed once a day, switch up between, New Era Marine grazer, spectrum pellets and mysis/cyclopeze combo. I do the occassional reef chili when I remember in the morning.

 

[BfishLpond78]

Not that I know of. Just a general observation of your system. Do you have a pic of the tank that you can post?

This is an older photo...but here it is...alot of the corals on the sandbed have been placed and mounted. Some are no longer in the system.

 

[-Logzor]

I had this issue for a very long time and adding a CO2 scrubber fixed it, my pH was getting super low. You can set one up for really cheap, it's worth a shot.

 

[jackson6745]

Hmmm. The tank looks very clean. Have you tried doing a large water change? I know that's not a permanent fix but they always stopped or slowed stn for me. Does the fuge have a lot of detritus?


Logzor that is interesting. I never suspected low ph as a cause. I'll keep an eye on this for future occurrences.

 

[mcarroll]

I should have mentioned that some of these are frags, they have been in the tank for many months but are still on the smaller side. There should be plenty of flow in the tank as everything is being moved by 2 MP40's on 40-50% reef crest.

I did have a bunch of fish, but I actually just removed 3 this weekend to make room for a new one (I believe i have 10 or 11 fish now). I usually feed once a day, switch up between, New Era Marine grazer, spectrum pellets and mysis/cyclopeze combo. I do the occassional reef chili when I remember in the morning.

That still sounds like a lot of fish...or at least it doesn't sound like not many fish.

How much quantity of food do you feed?

An 80 shallow is not an optimum environment for mp40s. The more grow out you have the worse they will be. IME they need more room to work effectively, and in general are better-suited to more cube-like shapes. If you wanted to be a hardcore Vortech fan I would swap the 40s for 10s and I'd put two on the back to support the two on the sides. Otherwise I'd swap for Tunze which are better suited to a low slung design.

Also, how are you dosing?

Some food for thought.

-Matt

 

[BfishLpond78]

I had this issue for a very long time and adding a CO2 scrubber fixed it, my pH was getting super low. You can set one up for really cheap, it's worth a shot.

A buddy in my reef club told me to use some sort of contain with a bunch of holes in it and to fill it with (the product escapes me right now) that way it pulls in air around this substance and helps with PH.

Hmmm. The tank looks very clean. Have you tried doing a large water change? I know that's not a permanent fix but they always stopped or slowed stn for me. Does the fuge have a lot of detritus?


Logzor that is interesting. I never suspected low ph as a cause. I'll keep an eye on this for future occurrences.

My fuge isnt all that dirty, i try and siphon out the detritus when it builds up. I just did a regular water change a few days ago. This issue started a few weeks ago.

That still sounds like a lot of fish...or at least it doesn't sound like not many fish.

How much quantity of food do you feed?

An 80 shallow is not an optimum environment for mp40s. The more grow out you have the worse they will be. IME they need more room to work effectively, and in general are better-suited to more cube-like shapes. If you wanted to be a hardcore Vortech fan I would swap the 40s for 10s and I'd put two on the back to support the two on the sides. Otherwise I'd swap for Tunze which are better suited to a low slung design.

Also, how are you dosing?

Some food for thought.

-Matt

Hi Matt,

It does seem like alot of fish, but they are all very little, the biggest ones being the 3 blue reef chromis. I usually feed a few pinches a spectrum pellets one night, one new era marine grazer another night, probably the equivelant of 3 cubes of mysis shrimp and 1 cube cyclopese, i like to feed my LPS, have about 75 heads of duncan, a bunch of acans and some sun corals I like to feed. Im currently dosing BRS two part right now, i think its either 42 or 48mls of each liquid.

As far as the power heads go, I have alot of negative space which accomidates the wide powerful flow of the vortech's...But i'm always up for something new.

 

[evolved]

I also suspect a lack of flow.

 

[BfishLpond78]

I also suspect a lack of flow.

I may have to post a video cause the corals that were showing it get hammered with flow.

 

[Arkayology]

If your system is truly not too low in nutrients and running stable at very low phosphate/nitrate, I would then suggest that your alk is perhaps too high and causing tissue necrosis? Just a thought.

However, I believe that your water is in fact too clean and that you may be exporting more than you are importing in regards to nutrients/coral food.

 

[BfishLpond78]

If your system is truly not too low in nutrients and running stable at very low phosphate/nitrate, I would then suggest that your alk is perhaps too high and causing tissue necrosis? Just a thought.

However, I believe that your water is in fact too clean and that you may be exporting more than you are importing in regards to nutrients/coral food.

Is 8.4 Dkh high? Or is it too high for the way my system is currently running with nutrient export?

I received a very informative PM about the possibility of my PH being off, I've never tested for PH, yes i know shame on me as I've never had a problem with it. But now that I think of it, I started noticing this issue when the days got colder and windows were closed for good. I always had the windows open to let fresh air in for the tank, but totally forgot about.

I'm going to get the PH tested and then most likely run a CO2 scrubber to hopefully combat this issue.

 

[Chameleon]

any possible alk swings a few months ago? I had this happen months after a kalkwasser overdose on the order of a 5 gallon saturated water into a 65 gallon reef.