Stn/rtn api water sample

[JohnIsNewToReefKeeping]

Some sps started to stn, so sent out a water sample and everything seems to check out, nutrients are a bit low but nutrients are back to where they need to be.

High water flow and perfect par numbers

Does the api test indicate some things that are bad?

 

[ReefHunter006]

My guess is that your PO4 hit 0 and caused it, if the reading is coming back at .01.

I could be wrong but I have come under the impression that people generally do not realize how quickly PO4 shifts. Significant changes can occur in days under the same feeding schedule. Maybe this week you harvested some cheato, or replaced a light on your refugium, maybe you fed half a cube more. I guess what I am saying is if you had .01 po4 then likely at some point before or after you probably had .0 po4.

Hope that helps.

 

[billyocean]

Low phosphate and low nitrate don't help but at least your alk isn't high with low nutrients. Maybe dose a little bit to have some cushion on the phos/nitrate so they don't bottom out. The potassium is a bit low as well..abt 400 will help with some colors.

 

[k2-]

it bacteria mostly responsible for Stn/rtn not always due to nutrient unless they are completely out of whack - dip them if you can and add a uv

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Nitrate really low and Phosphate is just a tad low. That most likely caused your STN as you say you have higher par. What is your PAR and flow setup?

You have a bit of aluminum which could be a bad heater or some other equipment. I've heard it could be Marine Pure media balls, I use them myself.

Your Potassium and Iodine are low. You can dose Lugol's Iodine, but you need to be careful as it's powerful.

Your silicates are a bit high too which means you may need new RODI media replacement. The only salt I know that has higher silicates is Reef Crystals. I doubt that's what you're using though as your Iodine is low. Reef Crystals is loaded with Iodine.

 

[k2-]

Lack of nitrate or phosphate don’t cause stn pr rtn specially rtn. It’s almost always due to bacterial infection. appropriate iodine level will provide long term robustness but having said that dip your coral into the dips and follow instructions accordingly - most of the key parameters are with in reasons (alk is a little low). Dose iodine and dip them - probably your only bet - most of the ocean cultured corals are finnicky and Susceptible to it. I have had such scenarios and my rate of success been 50% but still it’s more than 0%

I am hoping light par and flow are not an issue either. Any sudden change in environment ?

 

[k2-]

And if you can spray them with h2o2 - specially in affected areas ( if you spray everywhere it might shock the coral but near or around the decay) posting some picutea may help as well

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Lack of nitrate or phosphate don’t cause stn pr rtn specially rtn. It’s almost always due to bacterial infection. appropriate iodine level will provide long term robustness but having said that dip your coral into the dips and follow instructions accordingly - most of the key parameters are with in reasons (alk is a little low). Dose iodine and dip them - probably your only bet - most of the ocean cultured corals are finnicky and Susceptible to it. I have had such scenarios and my rate of success been 50% but still it’s more than 0%

I am hoping light par and flow are not an issue either. Any sudden change in environment ?

It absolutely will if it is very low and the PAR is higher. SPS need nitrogen as a food source and if you're providing a high PAR environment with no food, that equals RTN/STN.

 

[k2-]

Op shows the reading of .01 phosphate and .94 nitrate - which is non zero and mind you its what is left in water after corals have absorbed what they can and other method of nutrient exports - so they are not starving. Also most of the ULNS systems run almost near zero on these (including mine).

The problem of STN and RTN is usually bacterial infection on corals. There was a paper i read about it a while ago that helped me save many of my colonies when i had similar issue.


To avoid this
1) Make sure iodine levels are good (remember iodine poisoning is a real thing too so be careful)
2) For immediate relief apply or spray h2o2 or dip into some readily available dip or dip with iodine (not same as iodine - but a dip created from Lugol's iodine)


Also point to note - if nitrate and phosphate are 0 for a long time the first sign you will see is cyano algae (which is another bacterial thing). so if OP's tank is not flooded with Cyano - my guess is its not coral starvation issue.

its good to have a fixed number for nitrate and phosphate but as long as there is fish and nitrogen cycle is happening be assured that corals are not starving (they may not thrive but they will not show STN and RTN)

OP - some pictures here will be helpful.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Op shows the reading of .01 phosphate and .94 nitrate - which is non zero and mind you its what is left in water after corals have absorbed what they can and other method of nutrient exports - so they are not starving. Also most of the ULNS systems run almost near zero on these (including mine).

The problem of STN and RTN is usually bacterial infection on corals. There was a paper i read about it a while ago that helped me save many of my colonies when i had similar issue.


To avoid this
1) Make sure iodine levels are good (remember iodine poisoning is a real thing too so be careful)
2) For immediate relief apply or spray h2o2 or dip into some readily available dip or dip with iodine


Also point to note - if nitrate and phosphate are 0 for a long time the first sign you will see is cyano algae (which is another bacterial thing). so if OP's tank is not flooded with Cyano - my guess is its not coral starvation issue.

its good to have a fixed number for nitrate and phosphate but as long as there is fish and nitrogen cycle is happening be assured that corals are not starving (they may not thrive but they will not show STN and RTN)

OP - some pictures here will be helpful.

Terrible advice. You've had countless threads on these forums where you've killed every species known and had multiple tank crashes. I would be careful about advising anyone as you aren't there yet on knowing what you're doing.

STN/RTN can be caused by a number of things. Quickly fluctuating Alk levels, temperature changes, Salinity changes, you name it.

 

[k2-]

Cool so i guess we have gone beyond Nitrate and phosphate being low - so yes "Quickly" fluctuating is the key word here and it seems like - thats very loosely defined.

unless the swing is not at intolerable levels (like 2 points alk swing in 1 hour for multiple days or you forgot your doser running) corals don't start showing STN ( STN is usually happens over multiple weeks).

So OP is advised to check if his levels have been "Dramatically" fluctuating over the time.


@Hurricane Aquatics - sorry bud but i have never lost a softie or SPS due to 1.2 salinity change on a water change . or 5 F temp swing over a day or alk levels being fluctuating 1 point over a day.

 

[k2-]

@Hurricane Aquatics BTW out of my 2 recommendation which one can you call specifically terrible ? I would like to stay educated and just double check my knowledge and learn.

I am sure you dont disagree on keeping iodine level in check - is it dip thats bothering you ?

 

[k2-]

This is the NIH paper i was referring to (there are few more and can be searched)

Bacteria associated with the rapid tissue necrosis of stony corals - PubMed

The rapid tissue necrosis (RTN) is a common disease of both wild and captive stony corals, which causes a fast tissue degradation (peeling) and death of the colony. Here we report the results of an investigation carried out on the stony coral Pocillopora damicornis, affected by an RTN-like...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[billyocean]

It could be bacterial in which case I've read of antibiotics. It could be high par and low n03 and p04. Iodine and potassium need to come up regardless. Randy Homes recommends not using lugols for in tank iodine raising..the dip is fine. Seachem Iodide is ok to raise the tank levels but don't follow the bottles advice. A few drops a day is enough for my 125. The bottle 1ml daily for 20 gallons which is too much. Unless you know how to check with hanna nitrite/red sea reagents you have to rely on icp for measuring.