STN starting over the last week

[Smite]

I noticed my JTC started to receed towards the base last week and figured it was due to raising nitrates a little to quick. Tonight i was looking through my viewer and can now count 5 other pieces that are starting the same symptoms. Recession from the base up.
Tank is young for sps but has been stable as far as the big 3 go. Age about 4 months.

Alk 7.7 steady from the get go.
Cal 450
Mag 1400
Phosphates not detectable
Nitrates I believe are 10, could be slightly higher. I can start to see tint top down with my salifert kit. From the side it reads solid 10.


I did remove my rock to catch fish. The corals were out of the water for 10-15 minutes. I did a pretty go job of not stirring up sand but maybe something spiked I'm not sure.

I've checked my mp40 and gyre wetsides. I havent checked the return but i dont see any signs of rust so far. Same for the mixing station. I just ordered a triton kit but that'll probably take too long.


What should my first step be here? Is my alk too low for my nitrate level? I'm thinking of trying to super glue around the death ring but maybe i need to cut them from the base or frag some pieces. I'm worried if i do water changes to bring the nitrates down thats going to add more stress to the system.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Ocelaris]

Usually alkalinity is the cause of stn, changes in nitrates isn't usually the cause. Honestly, 10 nitrates is totally fine. What test kit are you testing phosphates with? I would actually go the other way and feed a bit more to try and reverse the stn. I'd monitor alkalinity daily for a while and keep it as steady as possible. My corals tolerate a wide range of nutrients, but they hate any alkalinity swings, and you may just be experiencing some shock from time out of water if they were already weak. Bump those phosphates if you can and it should get back to normal.

 

[Smite]

Usually alkalinity is the cause of stn, changes in nitrates isn't usually the cause. Honestly, 10 nitrates is totally fine. What test kit are you testing phosphates with? I would actually go the other way and feed a bit more to try and reverse the stn. I'd monitor alkalinity daily for a while and keep it as steady as possible. My corals tolerate a wide range of nutrients, but they hate any alkalinity swings, and you may just be experiencing some shock from time out of water if they were already weak. Bump those phosphates if you can and it should get back to normal.

Thanks Ocelaris. Your right they probably did get shocked during the removal. Then again because the fish were removed. I've noticed way less algae so I'm sure the phosphate dropped.

Testing phosphate with Hanna low range. Always seems undetectable even when I'd have to wipe my glass daily.

 

[Ocelaris]

If you are using the Hanna phosphorus ulr checker and getting zero, that's definitely the cause imo. Get some seachem phosphorus or feed more asap. The best advice I have gotten to date was to get a Hanna ulr phosphorus checker and keep my phosphates above 0.04. Since I've done that my corals have colored up significantly.

If you were using red sea phosphate test or similar I would have discounted the zero reading, but Hanna has been accurate in keeping my corals happy.

 

[BigJim]

If your Salifert test kit reads ten when viewing from the side, you need to divide by 10 to get the actual reading. Your nitrates might actually be 1 if you did not divide by 10. Having them out of the water for 10-15 minutes might be the cause. I would probably consider adding acro power or some other amino acid supplement to get some nutrients to the corals until the tank starts to have higher nitrate and phosphate levels naturally. If you post some pictures and include some additional information like lighting and light schedule, we might come up with something more concrete.

 

[Smite]

If your Salifert test kit reads ten when viewing from the side, you need to divide by 10 to get the actual reading. Your nitrates might actually be 1 if you did not divide by 10. Having them out of the water for 10-15 minutes might be the cause. I would probably consider adding acro power or some other amino acid supplement to get some nutrients to the corals until the tank starts to have higher nitrate and phosphate levels naturally. If you post some pictures and include some additional information like lighting and light schedule, we might come up with something more concrete.

If you are using the Hanna phosphorus ulr checker and getting zero, that's definitely the cause imo. Get some seachem phosphorus or feed more asap. The best advice I have gotten to date was to get a Hanna ulr phosphorus checker and keep my phosphates above 0.04. Since I've done that my corals have colored up significantly.

If you were using red sea phosphate test or similar I would have discounted the zero reading, but Hanna has been accurate in keeping my corals happy.

I'm using Hanna 173, Low Range Phosphate test kit. Hopefully that's the correct one. I just opened a new package of reagent and got a 0.00 again today.

BigJim, from the side the color matches 100. From the top it appears to be between 10-25ppm coloration.


Little more info about the tank
66g SCA 32x24x20T
Lighting is G3Pro x2 @ 55% 8 hours a day AB+ program. Added blue ramp up and down 30 additional minutes before and after light cycle. RMS mounted
ATS - Turbo L2 runs opposite schedule as my display lighting for 12 total hours.
UV - Been running it constantly lately to help fish fight off what i though was ich. Been leaving it on to hopefully eliminate bacterial issue with the sps
Skimming 24/7 for the most part. UV and Skimmer go on a 4 hour feed cycle 2x a week when i add MB7 @ 25ml
Tank temp: 77-78
Flow: Gyre150 @ 30-40 pulse; mp40 x2 @ 45% max anti sync/reefcrest mode
Salt: IO

Parameters just now via salifert
Alk 7.5
Cal 450
Mag 1370
Sg 1.026
P04 0.00 Hanna 173 LR phosphate
Nitrate approx 10ppm Salifert

Top off is RO/DI. When TDS hits 1 I change DI and pre filter

Salt Mix: IO. I may be switching to Red Sea blue bucket for a lower alk level.



Dosing:
2 part + mag via doser
MB7 x2 week
Pohl's ammino acid
Pohl's sponge power
Oyster feast at night mixed with reef roids. This was 2x per week, I upped it to daily after removing fish. I was spot feeding but after seeing some STN was wondering if it was stressing them out. I was broadcast feeding before.

Here are some pictures from this weekend. Just noticed this Miami Orchid was showing signs here (sorry not in focus)

Red planet in backround. That branch was dead from transport but its now white underneath as well

Still have the same color now just STN. My lights are off but I'll try and get some comparison pictures up soon.

My instinct is to do small daily water changes and look for improvement. My ATS is still growing so there has to be some P04 in the system. There is also a small bit of cyano on that dead tip of the red planet. nowhere else in teh tank.

FTS so you can see flow placement.

 

[Ocelaris]

I'd lower the hours the ats runs until you can show some phosphates. Sorry, short of that everything else looks good. I run alkalinity up near 11 and colors are great with 0.04 phosphates on the Hanna ulr phosphorus test kit. But I have some algae in the tank that I need to remove, so if you don't have any nuisance algae I'd let your nutrients rise however you can. Take the filter socks off, turn off the skimmer and ats for a day and then cut back the hours on the ats.

 

[Smite]

I'd lower the hours the ats runs until you can show some phosphates. Sorry, short of that everything else looks good. I run alkalinity up near 11 and colors are great with 0.04 phosphates on the Hanna ulr phosphorus test kit. But I have some algae in the tank that I need to remove, so if you don't have any nuisance algae I'd let your nutrients rise however you can. Take the filter socks off, turn off the skimmer and ats for a day and then cut back the hours on the ats.

I dug through some of my old equipment for my planted tank days. I still have some mono potassium phosphate powder for dosing planted tanks. I like the idea of cutting back on the ATS, seems more controlled, and if I dont see results from that I may start dosing the phosphate mixture. I'm always worried about killing my skimmer i just feel like I have less control over whats going back in the water. Gonna get a Triton test out asap, maybe that will show more.

Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it.

 

[Smite]

pods of all kinds are going nuts in my system now that the fish are gone. I've noticed these black vein looking things on the skeleton of my Miami Orchid acro. They appeared to be moving under flash light late last night but could be from the flow.

Best shot I could get:

Also the I've noticed some slime around the acros that are starting to recede around the base. Not sure if that's an indicator of anything.

 

[Ocelaris]

Usually the slime is just eating the old coral flesh, but if you see jelly attacking live flesh, definitely frag and start over away from that spot. If algae doesn't grow over the skeleton, it can regrow into it quickly.

 

[burninreefer]

from my experience, its the nitrates and the low alk doesn't help. I would do a good sized water change, add some pohls A balance (helps get system in order and helps stop stn) add some pohls B balance( corals base like crazy, helps slow stn/rtn) when nitrates get above 5 things start happening and once you notice its usually too late. any corals that have stn I would frag them to try and save them or use super glue and glue over the stn it should stop it. do a 20% change 2 days in a row to get your nitrates down.

 

[Smite]

Thanks @burninreefer I'll look into the pohl's A and B. In my last system SPS did better with nutrients but I did keep my alk around 9. That could very well be the issue, or atleast part of it. I'm still checking at night for pest but all I see are mass amounts of pods.

I cut pieces that were manageable and glued others that were very encrusted over STN and some live tissue. Its only been a day but I see no new STN forming. I'll have to wait and watch I guess.

 

[drawman]

You said you were raising nitrates I'm curious if you were dosing or just feeding more? Long term if your goal is to raise nitrates I would stop dosing the MB7.

I think you're smart not to overreact sometimes you can just make these things worse. If the STN continues you may want to try fragging to save some pieces. Keep us updated!

 

[Smite]

You said you were raising nitrates I'm curious if you were dosing or just feeding more? Long term if your goal is to raise nitrates I would stop dosing the MB7.

I think you're smart not to overreact sometimes you can just make these things worse. If the STN continues you may want to try fragging to save some pieces. Keep us updated!

Thanks for the insight. I had originally stopped dosing the MB7 when i started to raise nitrates but thought maybe something bacterial may be affecting the corals and worked the MB7 back in. I've since stopped. I've let my nitrates slowly come down to somewhere around 7ppm (between 5-10 color chart). I've been dosing 1 ml of a phosphate solution I mixed daily. Still reads zero but I get a light hazing of green film on the glass so I know something's there.

I trimmed what I could and superglued around the cuts covering a small amount of healthy flesh. What I couldn't really get to I just superglued around the STN under water. A challenge but I haven't seen STN in the past 2 days. Hopefully I got ahead of it. Triton test was sent out Monday so I'll update with that if STN continues.

I plan to very slowly raise my alk to 8.5-9 while maintaining some nutrients. I'll go slow and look closely for changes.

All the help is greatly appreciated!

 

[CoralExotic]

From this picture, I think you might have Halofolliculina corallasia.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acro-pest-small-black-spots-on-acro.194128/

pods of all kinds are going nuts in my system now that the fish are gone. I've noticed these black vein looking things on the skeleton of my Miami Orchid acro. They appeared to be moving under flash light late last night but could be from the flow.

Best shot I could get:

Also the I've noticed some slime around the acros that are starting to recede around the base. Not sure if that's an indicator of anything.

 

[Smite]

From this picture, I think you might have Halofolliculina corallasia.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acro-pest-small-black-spots-on-acro.194128/

That looks exactly like what I see on the exposed skeleton. Thank you for the link. I'll be reading up to find out my best plan of attack.

 

[CoralExotic]

Im dealing with the same thing on one of my acros right now. I think the best course of action is to frag it and save what's left. I'm also gonna take the rock out that it was glued to just to be safe. Have you noticed them on any other acros?

 

[burninreefer]

I hope you get things worked out. Cut and glue is probably the best way to stop it

 

[Smite]

I hope you get things worked out. Cut and glue is probably the best way to stop it

I think so too. So far they're looking okay. I have one affected acro that's not looking so hot, tanzanite terror, but it hasn't been all that happy in my system period. Now that i removed it from the rock it encrusted hopefully I can find it a sweet spot.

Im dealing with the same thing on one of my acros right now. I think the best course of action is to frag it and save what's left. I'm also gonna take the rock out that it was glued to just to be safe. Have you noticed them on any other acros?

I haven't noticed them on rock or even super glue. I have seen them on two other acros affected from the STN, green slimmer & strawberry shortcake. My red planet and red dragon that stn'd didn't have any signs of them.

I'm having trouble finding information on treating a reef tank for Halofolliculina corallasia. With no signs on other acros I'm wondering if its actually causing the STN or atleast if its not 100% of the problem.

 

[Smite]

So it looks like my Triton test resulted in some contamination. Tin and Aluminum were elevated. Tin at 8.574 ug/l and Aluminum at 101. Tin is in red and Aluminum is yellow. I'm assuming I'm getting rust in my system somehow and will start the hunt when I get back in town on Monday. I've got a feeling its' coming from my ATS but haven't pulled my return yet to break it down. Gonna be pain, just another to upgrade so i have more room to work under the hood.