Strange SPS issue

[kevensquint]

Hello, after many years and 3 fantastic SPS tanks...I'm bewildered. There is no common reaction of my corals in the sense that. Some are pale, some look awsome , some have no PE, some do. Some are growing some are stalled. None are dying or have any actual tissue damage though. Its basically color and PE that is not equal. This tank is a 180 lit with 3 Phoenix 250's, and 2 ATI Blue plus . There are also reefbrite actinic lumi LEDs. These lights are not all in use ATM. I got about 6hrs MH and 2 hours T5 after that. Here are the only differences between this relatively new system vs my older successful ones.
1. A large DSB mangrove tank attached to the display with 30" tall mangroves
2. A few gorgonians , zoas and poly's in the display.
Aside from that the recipe is the same I used in the past.

 

[drawman]

Parameters? How long has the tank been running? Any fish that could be nippers? Some tanks take longer to hit their stride I'm going through the same atm.

 

[Bob Weigant]

I’ve had that happen and still haven’t heard why. Coral A is doing great while coral B has done nothing. Then one day coral B decides do start growing. Don’t know the true reason why this happens

 

[Hagios]

You may have black bugs. Not to be confused with the grayish slug bugs.

Pull some of the acro's out that look pale or have had their polyps retracted for some time. Look them over really carefully for extremely tiny specs. They are difficult to spot and you may need a magnifying glass. Typically they freeze up when they know that they have been discovered.

If it turns out that you think you have them they are easily treated with Interceptor. You can use Dr. G's Coral Dip in the tank at 1mL per gallon to eradicate them. Treat on a weekly basis for 2-3 wks which should take out any larvae as well. It sounds like you are experienced, but just in case a warning. You will lose some to all of your crabs and shrimp if you have them.

 

[jwshiver]

I am running MH / T5 combo. I was running my MH for 6 hours and had great growth but most of my coral colors where washed out. Both WWC and Top Shelf Aquatics told me to drop the MH down to 4 hours. I gradually dropped the the MH to 4 hours and run the ATI Blue Plus for 10 hours. It has been 14 months now and the colors dramatically improved and in general look happier. However, the growth did slow some so if you decide to try this watch your dkh closely.

 

[TexasReefer82]

What do you feed the corals? Do you use a nutrition program like Red Sea Reef Energy or EasySPS, etc?

I have the exact same problem - some of my acros are just amazing with great growth and great polyp extension at night (I have a flameback angle so none during the day, haha). Others are stagnant and I've lost a couple new frags to STN. I thought that my unhealthy acros looked starved and so I began a feeding regimen using reef roids, oyster feast, and phyto feast and have seen improvement, in some, in the last two weeks.

I suspect that not all acropora species are equal in terms of their nutrition requirements. I think some are very good at autotrophy (making their own food) and others are rather poor and need a lot more heterotrophy (externally sourced food).

 

[kevensquint]

I add Acrppower daily. There are no AEFW, black bugs or red bugs or MEN or nipping fish. I'm super Anal about pests , quarenteen, dipping, cutting etc. I even use $3000 surgical glasses to examine the corals . They cant get pest freer than that. I believe the problem may be chemical from the Paly's or Gorgonian. Or possibly the mangroves removing trace elements I cannot easily test for . My WC regime was 15% per 2 weeks, I admit I missed 2 in the last month and a half. Params are tested 2-3 times per week , Alk almost every day. All are stable with dosing . Except my brain thinks the 30" mangroves and 10" DSB in that remote tank might be competing with my SPS....There is zero algae on the LR, only coraline growing. This even tho my NO3 is 5ppm and PO4 0.08ppm. Wierd

 

[jda]

Is this newer tank started with dead/dry rock, sterile sand and lack in bio diversity? I am not talking about bacteria in a bottle, but actual biodiversity in microfauna?

Does this article explain some of what you are seeing?

Revisiting my Elos tank after 18 months | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Sometimes we just aren’t as smart as we think we are. I am using the “royal we” as I know I am definitely not as smart as I think I am a lot of the tie, especially when it comes to this hobby.

reefbuilders.com

 

[Bob Weigant]

You may have black bugs. Not to be confused with the grayish slug bugs.

Pull some of the acro's out that look pale or have had their polyps retracted for some time. Look them over really carefully for extremely tiny specs. They are difficult to spot and you may need a magnifying glass. Typically they freeze up when they know that they have been discovered.

If it turns out that you think you have them they are easily treated with Interceptor. You can use Dr. G's Coral Dip in the tank at 1mL per gallon to eradicate them. Treat on a weekly basis for 2-3 wks which should take out any larvae as well. It sounds like you are experienced, but just in case a warning. You will lose some to all of your crabs and shrimp if you have them.

I used to use interceptor when I was in Vegas but since being back in nor cal I haven't had the connection. When I asked my dogs vet about I didn't get the hear ya go look. Do you have a connection ?

 

[Hagios]

I used to use interceptor when I was in Vegas but since being back in nor cal I haven't had the connection. When I asked my dogs vet about I didn't get the hear ya go look. Do you have a connection ?

Dr. G's Coral Dip has Milbemycin oxime as the active ingredient, same at that found in Interceptor. Instead of having to go through a Vet you can get it online. Premium Aquatics carries it.

 

[Rickyrooz]

Following along

 

[kevensquint]

Thank you for the article by Mike Paletta, it hit a useful observation. This particular tank is 6 months running, opposite to common sense. I have managed to grow great SPS tanks with frag introduction starting after only one month. I also always use a mix of dry Marco rock and LR, to reduce pest issues. However, in this particular build I went one step further towards sterile as Mike Paletta wrote about. I used only dry Marco in the display and some LR in the sump. I may have just enough LR to not have corals die, assuming the bacteria and micro-fauna is actually the issue. But not enough to have all the invisible ingredients for my SPS to thrive. I will add more LR and see. Below was my 75 gallon SPS at exactly 1 year of growth, this tank was set up exactly like my current issued tank. There are not many differences: zoas,palys and a gorgonian, a large remote mangrove refugium and less LR in favor of more dry rock. Thats it.

 

[ryshark]

Thank you for the article by Mike Paletta, it hit a useful observation. This particular tank is 6 months running, opposite to common sense. I have managed to grow great SPS tanks with frag introduction starting after only one month. I also always use a mix of dry Marco rock and LR, to reduce pest issues. However, in this particular build I went one step further towards sterile as Mike Paletta wrote about. I used only dry Marco in the display and some LR in the sump. I may have just enough LR to not have corals die, assuming the bacteria and micro-fauna is actually the issue. But not enough to have all the invisible ingredients for my SPS to thrive. I will add more LR and see. Below was my 75 gallon SPS at exactly 1 year of growth, this tank was set up exactly like my current issued tank. There are not many differences: zoas,palys and a gorgonian, a large remote mangrove refugium and less LR in favor of more dry rock. Thats it.

I went through the same thing as you and what is described in Paletta's article. I was successful keeping SPS many years ago and then got back in a few years back and my acros would die off within a month. I blamed LEDs, nutrients, Tin in the ICP, vermetid snails, etc, etc. However, the difference between my successful tank many years ago and the new tank was the rock. Like you, I started with mostly dead rock on the new tank, like 95% and my successful tank was started with 100% live rock, back in the day. I started neglecting the tank because if I can't grow acros, I don't enjoy the hobby. Even with minimal water changes, algae growth and restricting flow from powerheads, salinity fluctions because my ATO would beep at me and I knew I could still get another day or two before I really needed to add top off before my return would start blowing air and not testing the parameters. What I noticed several months later was that even with neglect the couple acros that didn't completely die, that were almost dead with no PE, they eventually started showing PE and growing. What happened was my dry rock finally matured. This gave me motivation again, but my rocks were covered in vermetid snails which grew like crazy when I was feeding the acros way too much just to bring up nutrients. I decided to get a new and bigger tank and start all over again, throwing those rocks away. This time I went the opposite route and started with mostly live rock and a little dry, so far so good. @ycnibrc started a good thread discussing this issue: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/why-cant-u-keep-sps.670707/

 

[jda]

I hope that you figure it out and get it humming like the past tanks. Most people think that if they add a bottle of Dr. Tims, or whatever, that they are all set but they are missing out on all of the worms, pods, other types of bacteria, sponges, etc. You cannot convince them otherwise since BRS had a video about it or some posters on a message board said that bacteria-in-a-bottle was enough. It is unfortunate that pacific rock is so hard to get anymore, but i guess that the Atlantic stuff will have to do until/unless Pacific rock starts to come in.

 

[ryshark]

I got the Atlantic stuff from KP Aquatics which came from the bottom of Key West, it’s covered in coraline and loaded with life, even brittle stars, tunicates, urchins and sponges survived on it.
From the pacific I got a bunch of stuff from IPSF which comes from Hawaii, live sand, mud, worms, stars, snails, crabs etc.
@kevensquint Look into IPSF, you can add some real biodiversity