Struggling Banggai Cardinalfish in QT

[underthereef]

Hi, I bought 4 aquacultured Banggai cardinalfish from an LFS a couple weeks ago. They have been in my cycled QT the entire time. 1 of them suddenly is not doing well. I moved him into an emergency smaller QT I set up last night with no medications in the water. He looks fine in appearance (I think) I haven’t noticed anything on him. The only difference was about 12 hours earlier before symptoms started I dosed prazipro. All the other 3 seem fine and acting normal. The only other catch is I haven’t gotten ANY of them eating well the entire time so far.

Idk why these are considered beginner fish when now that I look it up everyone has trouble getting these fish to eat. I’d rather have gotten a more expensive fish that was eating. Lol. Is there a possibility he is just starving? I’ve tried frozen marine blend with brine mysis krill, flakes, pellets, shredded scallops, and all of the above soaked in either entice or garlic with not much luck.

Anyway: I took a video to see just in case it helps. He don’t look good and when swims it’s irratic. He’s actually moving more than last night. I also took a photo of some dark things I found in the water idk if it’s just poop or possibly flukes? Although I haven’t seen anything on any of the fish or anything in the main QT after dosing prazi.

 

[underthereef]

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi, I bought 4 aquacultured Banggai cardinalfish from an LFS a couple weeks ago. They have been in my cycled QT the entire time. 1 of them suddenly is not doing well. I moved him into an emergency smaller QT I set up last night with no medications in the water. He looks fine in appearance (I think) I haven’t noticed anything on him. The only difference was about 12 hours earlier before symptoms started I dosed prazipro. All the other 3 seem fine and acting normal. The only other catch is I haven’t gotten ANY of them eating well the entire time so far.

Idk why these are considered beginner fish when now that I look it up everyone has trouble getting these fish to eat. I’d rather have gotten a more expensive fish that was eating. Lol. Is there a possibility he is just starving? I’ve tried frozen marine blend with brine mysis krill, flakes, pellets, shredded scallops, and all of the above soaked in either entice or garlic with not much luck.

Anyway: I took a video to see just in case it helps. He don’t look good and when swims it’s irratic. He’s actually moving more than last night. I also took a photo of some dark things I found in the water idk if it’s just poop or possibly flukes? Although I haven’t seen anything on any of the fish or anything in the main QT after dosing prazi.

The dark things aren't flukes. Did you have good aeration for the prazi treatment?

The banggai cardinal in the video is termed "moribund". Fish in that condition rarely survive, even if it can be determined what is wrong....sorry. It does seem thin to me, and their feeding history kind points towards that.

Are you confident these were tank raised? Sometimes, wholesalers lie to the LFS about the origins of fish. Also, there is a huge difference between domestic and foreign captive raised. With the latter, they may have been exposed to wild cardinals and picked up the nasty virus that makes the wild ones so delicate now days.

Live brine shrimp is a good enticement to get these to feed. One thing to be wary of - in desperation, trying to get fish to feed, people sometimes flood a tank with food. This can trash the water quality.

Jay

 

[underthereef]

The dark things aren't flukes. Did you have good aeration for the prazi treatment?

The banggai cardinal in the video is termed "moribund". Fish in that condition rarely survive, even if it can be determined what is wrong....sorry. It does seem thin to me, and their feeding history kind points towards that.

Are you confident these were tank raised? Sometimes, wholesalers lie to the LFS about the origins of fish. Also, there is a huge difference between domestic and foreign captive raised. With the latter, they may have been exposed to wild cardinals and picked up the nasty virus that makes the wild ones so delicate now days.

Live brine shrimp is a good enticement to get these to feed. One thing to be wary of - in desperation, trying to get fish to feed, people sometimes flood a tank with food. This can trash the water quality.

Jay

Yea I have a large airstone and dual biowheel filter so the aeration would seem good. I guess I can't be certain that the supplier didn't lie to the LFS or also on whether they are foreign or domestic raised.

I also read that sometimes with Banggai they won't eat even if they don't like 1 thing in the food. So maybe I made a mistake trying the seafood blend and will try Brine and Mysis by themselves and see if I have better luck. Or any live stuff I can get my hands on.

Thanks also for confirming they are not Flukes.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yea I have a large airstone and dual biowheel filter so the aeration would seem good. I guess I can't be certain that the supplier didn't lie to the LFS or also on whether they are foreign or domestic raised.

I also read that sometimes with Banggai they won't eat even if they don't like 1 thing in the food. So maybe I made a mistake trying the seafood blend and will try Brine and Mysis by themselves and see if I have better luck. Or any live stuff I can get my hands on.

Thanks also for confirming they are not Flukes.

Yes, dead flukes are gray or whitish, and only one species is large enough to be seen without a microscope.

Jay

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I agree it should not be considered as a beginner fish. They are picky eaters, and just dont seem to adapt well to being in a tank. I've kept them alive for months, but then they just stop eating and die in like 2 days.

 

[threebuoys]

You may want to try some mini-pellets if you have them. Mine started eating them the day I got the fish. Lucky I guess. I have a pair almost 2 years old. One, along with all of the other fish in the tank, attacks any food I provide. The second one never attacks food ( except when I occasionally feed frozen brine shrimp), and keeps his distance. I never see him eating but he is just as fat and same size at the first one. I assume he forages food from the bottom of the tank since he is otherwise healthy. I believe the one that does not appear to eat is the male of the pair. Several times a year he obviously is carrying eggs in his mouth. Usually the eggs are gone after several days, but that egg carrying behavior might influence how he behaves around food.

 

[underthereef]

You may want to try some mini-pellets if you have them. Mine started eating them the day I got the fish. Lucky I guess. I have a pair almost 2 years old. One, along with all of the other fish in the tank, attacks any food I provide. The second one never attacks food ( except when I occasionally feed frozen brine shrimp), and keeps his distance. I never see him eating but he is just as fat and same size at the first one. I assume he forages food from the bottom of the tank since he is otherwise healthy. I believe the one that does not appear to eat is the male of the pair. Several times a year he obviously is carrying eggs in his mouth. Usually the eggs are gone after several days, but that egg carrying behavior might influence how he behaves around food.

That's a good point maybe it influences how they desire to feed. I tried mini pellets with no luck at all. Maybe I was confusing them trying to get them to eat too many different kinds of food to quickly. Luckily I got a them to take a bite or two of frozen brine last night. I keep hoping the same thing maybe they are foraging when I'm not looking or picking very small pieces of food out of the water. But it's hard to say.

I also keep thinking maybe they just don't need nearly as much food as I'm used to, but then again I just feel like any fish should be going crazy for food when you put it in the tank. Lol. I know I'm overfeeding a little right now though just trying to get a feeding response but not trying to overdo it.

 

[underthereef]

So I have an update regarding my situation I'm not sure if it will help or not. I had lost the 1 struggling fish. But the others were doing fine. I had gotten them to start taking a couple bites of mysis daily. Still not a lot. But they didn't look too skinny and seemed fine. Then suddenly another one started not doing well. I am noticing that when they start to turn for the worst; they are turning dark almost with a dark red/brown hue in their body after their head section. Not patchy just a general darkening instead of their normal light silver color. Also they suddenly do look much skinnier. Does this sound like anything? Or still maybe weren't eating enough?

Is it possible they can be sensetive to Prazi or is that unheard of? It also happened 2-3 days after the second prazi treatment. Or could it even be a sign of copper poisoning?

Another observation is that they seem to be going in cycles of eating and not eating. They'll eat for a few days then not eat for a couple days etc.

@Jay Hemdal

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

So I have an update regarding my situation I'm not sure if it will help or not. I had lost the 1 struggling fish. But the others were doing fine. I had gotten them to start taking a couple bites of mysis daily. Still not a lot. But they didn't look too skinny and seemed fine. Then suddenly another one started not doing well. I am noticing that when they start to turn for the worst; they are turning dark almost with a dark red/brown hue in their body after their head section. Not patchy just a general darkening instead of their normal light silver color. Also they suddenly do look much skinnier. Does this sound like anything? Or still maybe weren't eating enough?

Is it possible they can be sensetive to Prazi or is that unheard of? It also happened 2-3 days after the second prazi treatment. Or could it even be a sign of copper poisoning?

Another observation is that they seem to be going in cycles of eating and not eating. They'll eat for a few days then not eat for a couple days etc.


@Jay Hemdal

This species isn't really known to be sensitive to copper or praziquantel. There is a huge issue with a known viral problem in this species. My understanding is that is confined to wild caught cardinals, or those going through the aquarium fish supply chain, but as I mentioned, it is sometimes difficult to know the full history of the fish that you buy. While it is all to easy to say, "this fish has a problem that I can't identify, therefore it must be a virus" your group of fish having the same issue all at once seems to possibly point that way. Take a look at this article:

(PDF) Systemic Iridovirus Infection in the Banggai Cardinalfish (Pterapogon Kauderni Koumans 1933)

PDF | Iridoviruses infect food and ornamental fish species from a wide range of freshwater to marine habitats across the globe. The objective of the... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

I'm not saying for certain that this is the issue, but it bears some consideration....

Jay

 

[underthereef]

This species isn't really known to be sensitive to copper or praziquantel. There is a huge issue with a known viral problem in this species. My understanding is that is confined to wild caught cardinals, or those going through the aquarium fish supply chain, but as I mentioned, it is sometimes difficult to know the full history of the fish that you buy. While it is all to easy to say, "this fish has a problem that I can't identify, therefore it must be a virus" your group of fish having the same issue all at once seems to possibly point that way. Take a look at this article:

(PDF) Systemic Iridovirus Infection in the Banggai Cardinalfish (Pterapogon Kauderni Koumans 1933)

PDF | Iridoviruses infect food and ornamental fish species from a wide range of freshwater to marine habitats across the globe. The objective of the... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

I'm not saying for certain that this is the issue, but it bears some consideration....

Jay

That is interesting it does sound like it could be a possibility. The lethargy and darkening seem to match up. If that were to be what it is; there is not really a treatment to try with this? Do I need to worry about that spreading to other fish or is it isolated to species specific?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

That is interesting it does sound like it could be a possibility. The lethargy and darkening seem to match up. If that were to be what it is; there is not really a treatment to try with this? Do I need to worry about that spreading to other fish or is it isolated to species specific?

It seems to be restricted to this species (but possibly other cardinalfish, IDK?)

Jay