Struggling For No Apparent Reason

[homer1475]

It's very frustrating as I've poured a lot of time and money into the tank and considering ive tried my damnedest to do everything right the winds kind of gone out of the sails. I feel like any move i make from here will just be blind grasping in the dark that'll simply be a waste of more time and money.

I might switch salts to see if that's a source of contaminant and maybe the new salt will possibly bump up the minor and trace elements. But other that I think I might just stick to weekly waterchanges and let time decide. Either the tank turns a corner and improves or it doesnt.

Purely out of curiosity, what salt are you currently using?

As for the first paragraph, sometimes thats all we can do, wait and see.

 

[Nano10]

Red sea blue bucket.

 

[homer1475]

Which in all honesty is as good as everyone says it is, should have all those things your missing in a plentiful amount.

 

[Waters]

The only thing that would concern me is the copper in the RO/DI water.....whether it tests in your DT or not. If it is in your newly made salt water you have to assume it is ending up in your DT?

 

[Nano10]

Yea, thats why I posted a thread in Randy's chemistry forum hoping he'd chime in. I know he's not to big on testing rodi water because its findings dont necessarily mean anything in regards to how it effects your display.

I'm thinking he amounts so small that it simply doesnt add up enough to anything dectable in the tank. I mean foods you feed have copper in them... so maybe a minscule amount in ro might not necessarily be an issue?

And if that is the problem I dont know what id do. I have a unit producing 0tds water, so...

 

[Stoney]

I'd love to see what an aquabiomics test would show. Do you remember if you added any new frags around the time this started? Or perhaps changed the scape/disturbed bio media?

 

[Nano10]

Well, small update. My walt Disney which was actually looking better than the rest pretty much completely RTNed over night. It seems to be the MO. Corals will start STN with some lose at the base or tips and go on this way for a month or longer just to RTN on day.

Anyway I wouldnt mind having one of those tests done but at this point i dont feel like spending 100 bucks just to grasp at straws is worth it.

Anyway theres been new corals introduced regularly into the tank. When the issues first started I thought I knew the cause and had corrected it before adding more but as seen with this thread they went down hill as well.

 

[Retro Reefer]

I would recommend trying a poly filter to help remove any potential contaminants from your system including copper or other heavy metals.

POLY-BIO-MARINE, Inc.

POLY-BIO-MARINE - Specialized Water Filtration Systems

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[Nano10]

Yea I'll probably try that just for the hell of it and see what happens.

My tsa fruity Pebbles is on the way out now also and that really hurts. Its possibly my favorite coral period and I couldn't believe I actually got a piece at not just a reasonable price, but for a steal.

 

[NanoDJS]

Im still running 2 original primes in my growout tank 48x18x12 they are awesome , thing is I run them way off the water and never at 100% any channel , I also have seen the various WWC growouts plenty of times , and have never seen a light less than like 2-3 feet off the water. I used to run my old lights 2 feet off the water, only my new lights are actually the PAR they supposed to be when I run them at 8.5" inches like the hardmount made for them . the 450nm "blue" spike that corals use is actually predominantly in the white bulbs of the prime, I think alot of people misunderstand this and BLAST their coral with UV .Which will eventually cause issues that cannot be easily understood cause everything else is "perfect" and so many people use the AB+ setting , (yeah for like a year) and I see the most "unknown" issues with coral from people running it. Bottom line is they tried to hit a spectral output thats labled on the side of a T5 bulb box that was popular .Its not some ground breaking scientific finding , it was a stab in the dark , based on something that worked well ( with t5 tech) the truth is the wavelenghts travel so much differant between the 2 lights . LED is way more penetrative with energy distribution. Its not the PAR its the mols that matter. Primes put out ALOT of mols , at the surface @ 100% AB+ your giving those things like 400-500 micro mols , these lights have over 100 at 24" depth!! Just cause its small people think its weak , little do they know that they would have been better off buying a bunch of these than alot of other multipuck lights

 

[Nano10]

I'm running it about 10 inches of the water and wwc runs there primes about 12 over their nanos.

A lot of people run primes with ab+ 8-10 inches above the water without issue.

I'm fairly certain it's not lighting. I ran this lighting long before issues started. And before that ran less light and corals clearly wanted more.

Violets and blues penetrate water the best and are the spectrum most utilized by corals. Almost every tank I've seen running AI or Ecotech lights max violets and blues.

 

[NanoDJS]

how long has the AB+ prescription been out ? are you all following it to what they say in the coral labs white paper? so you have 300 par as the most intense ? The AI and ecotech uses diff bulbs first off , secondly the "program" is not just your lights @ 24" in the white paper , its dosing the things that that peaks tickle. So if your a pro with a few thousand gallons and some gen3 's it might work for you. If your not a pro , and not using g3's and not dosing , than I wouldnt try and use it, people using AB+ with primes dont even realize the primes and hyrdas dont have the same bulbs , you cant reproduce a hydra sched with a prime lolz . I have used the lights for 4 years , and I would love for you to enjoy your new TSA goodness, as more than a ticking timebomb which will end in defeat and misery. I would run easy setup with max uv 35 max violet 45 max deepblue 70 max blue 55 maxgreen 10 maxred 10 maxwhite 25 this will give you a 17.5k ish look and your corals will love it , and wont keep UV melting your sticks and zoas , should get around 100-350 micro mols average in the tank then . When I ran AB+ as an experiment mushrooms I have had for over 4 years in the same system wouldnt get more than like 1.5" open , when they are 4" plus during a normal 17k photo period. GSP , and other zoas ect hated it . Even the nems , and sps were pretty funky , I didnt let it go for more than a week. I also notice a re-acclimation period when I get stuff from AB+ systems, then after like a week or two they color up better and start growing like mad. The local store I deal with ran AB+ for while on all the tanks , switched some lights out a few months ago to the lights I run now and noticed major positive changes. The corals do much better now. I would always show him pics of how the frags i bought colored up and changed so much under my system , so he changed up( hes a vendor for them both ), it was so much better hes changing them all. IMHO if you want true AB+ then run the t5 bulbs they trying to emulate. I have a 4 bulb hood collecting dust with all those bulbs in it because its not as good as proper LEDs used correctly .Also I have never seen an acro in the " blue zone" of light in the ocean. I have never seen one lower than like 50 ft personally , all the light there was white appearing, I assure you. Light diffusion is very different than just providing certain peaks .

 

[NanoDJS]

I'm running it about 10 inches of the water and wwc runs there primes about 12 over their nanos.

A lot of people run primes with ab+ 8-10 inches above the water without issue.

I'm fairly certain it's not lighting. I ran this lighting long before issues started. And before that ran less light and corals clearly wanted more.

Violets and blues penetrate water the best and are the spectrum most utilized by corals. Almost every tank I've seen running AI or Ecotech lights max violets and blues.

Whats the back of your AI prime box say for peak micro mol ? is it 300 ........ . no so your not running AB+ anyhow. Saxby is another good one to point out , on his tank awesome on your tank it will kill everything eventually.

 

[jtl]

Tin is a by product of making float glass. For what ever reason some manufacturers do a better job than others of cleaning the glass to remove the tin residue.

 

[naterealbig]

The lighting is not new. If anything I was worried I'm not providing enough light. But that wouldn't cause my current issues.

Anyway, the Lps and softies are in the lower half of the tank. In fact I have a small twizzler colony on the bare bottom that's suddenly starting to melt. I have no idea what's going on.

Those zoas have been in the tank for months. The struggling acros a few weeks. I did have other sps that did fine for months, but then things just started going down hill and despite everything seeming to be in line the tanks struggling.

And yes, I make my own rodi water and its tests for 0tds. But I did just order an icp test that I'll send out just to see if that points to anything.

Oh, and cuc is a couple hermits, a few nerites and nassarius, and some ceriths.

What are your PAR levels throughout the tank?

 

[naterealbig]

Well, got my ICP results back and only a few things stood out though I'm not sure they'd result in coral death.

Iodine is low @ 22.64 with a listed target of 64.81

Molybdenum is low 5.25

Manganese is low/undetectable

Vanadium is low/undetectable

Tin is high 5.47

And my ro water tested high in copper @ 1.88 yet the display showed none.

Any ideas?

what is the unit of measure on the copper? If ppm then this is a major concern, and would explain the ailments you describe.

I'm not savvy on the ICP testing, but you may want to gather some info on how it's measured, isotopes, differences in freshwater vs marine testing, etc.

Also FYI - cooper in as low as 50 PPB concentration has been shown to have severe negative effects on marine life.

 

[reefcleaners Verified Sponsor]

Hi, my tank is having some issues and I just can't seem to figure it out. So, I thought I'd reach out and see if anyone might have some thoughts as to what's going on.

I would wait awhile before adding anything new and then see if your luck changes. There are bacterial diseases and many other things we have little info on that can wipe out corals in the way you are describing. Your survivors are likely just hardier/more established than those that are dying.

I think running carbon is a good idea and I would continue it to help mop up the organic chemicals given off by the stressed corals, it will help improve the ability of the others to remain healthy.

 

[Nano10]

The copper reading is in ug/l. That's why I thinks its undetectable in the tank, it's such a minuscule amount in the ro that it simply doesnt build up.

I know Randy isnt to keen on the ro test because its findings dont necessarily point toward something to be concerned about.

Anyway, after I lost my first batch of sps I waited like four months before adding more, even though I thought I knew the cause at the time. But the same thing happened with this recent batch so...

As for lighting. BRS used a spectrometer to recreate the ab setting with the prime and that's what people use. And even saxbys setting is used without issue. One prime over a nano is not the same as dozens of hydras over 3000 gallons. I'm 100% confident lighting is not the issue.

 

[hotdrop]

Are you sure you don’t have any bugs? Seems like you might want to dip some of the sick corals and see what happens. Maybe something will fall off and you will find the problem

 

[Nano10]

I'm pretty sure. I dip everything and have seen no signs of bugs.

I actually think I found out why my corals are struggling. Twice now my tanks done this weird thing were alk raises without dosing and it's happening again and my Alk is far higher than I realized.

My hannah checker showed my alk at 8.7 when I sent my sample to ATI, they tested it at 9.4. And today I took a sample to a LFS just for confirmation and it tested at 10.9 when my hannah showed 9.2

So whie I have no clue as to what's causing it to raise on its own(no3 as stayed at 25ppm or so) I do know now that my testing hasnt been accurate and instable/high all is likely what's killing my corals.