Struggling with nem tank, not sure whats wrong...

[ianryd]

Despite good parameters, my nem tank is struggling. It has been running for 18 months. I don't have a build thread but heres a little about it.
20 gal tall w/10 gal fuge. w/chaeto and miracle mud. Running filter floss in a cup. I dose TLF acro power 3xweekly. WC only if nutrients start to creep up
Barebottom, 15-20 lbs of rock.
Single AI prime LED lighting
Return pump is just under 500 gph, and 2 small wavemakers in tank provide gentle flow. Tunze ATO
Fish-Pair of Percula clowns, clown goby and YWM goby. Emerald crab and about 6 various snails.
Coral-RBTA, various zoas, pumping xenia, gsp, shrooms, chalice
Here are my params and lighting schedule

No corals seem really happy in this tank. My BTAs are not thriving. They are usually shrunk down but have their tentacles out. They have been like this for months. My zoas seem to be reaching for light.
Here are a few issues I have had in the past but have remedied.
-I had some peppermint shrimp that were for aptasia control that ate one of my BTA after the aptasia was gone. They are no longer in the tank.
-Had dynos bad for like 8 months, but finally beat them about 3 months ago.
-Dealt with high nutrients for a while last year, so I redid my aquascape and havent had any problems since.
-The latest things I have tried are moving the light closer, its now about 8" off the surface.
-Raising the temp-usually kept it at 75.5ish, raised it to 77ish.
The only other things it could be that I can think of are stray voltage(I have a grounding plug on the way), or the plastic container I have the miracle mud in is leaching something into the water (maybe I should ICP test?), or my light has gone dim (don't know if thats possible with LED) Here are a few pics

I have had brief periods where things have been good and everything seems happy, but it's been like this for months. I have kept larger tanks with no problems, but this nano has me stumped! Help!

 

[dmy535]

The only thing I can think of would be the lighting. Your zoas in your picture appear to be extending which generally means they are trying to get closer to the light. BTAs require lots of light. I know your tank is only a 10g, but it looks like there is a lot of shadows and darker areas.

 

[TriggersAmuck]

If your tank is a standard 20g tall, I'm guessing the height is 17.25"? At first that was my first thought, but on the other hand the corals in the second picture appear to be elevated roughly a third to half way up (so 6 to 9" below the surface give or take) and they are dead center in the tank. The cooler temperature could lead to lower metabolism and growth. If you only changed the temperature last week then maybe giving it a chunk more time to see if anything responds before reaching a verdict or changing anything else might be in order?

 

[TriggersAmuck]

I would say that for light loving corals, a single AI prime will have a hard time with the corners and deepest points of most tanks. I actually have 3 Primes on my 14 gallon cube (15" on each side), but I'm keeping anemones mainly (and Ricordea Florida), hence the need for higher intensity. (Two of them are green BTAs). By using three of them I can dial the spectrum down to a mainly blue one (you have done that to some degree) and spotlight them on three different areas of the tank.

 

[ianryd]

I would say that for light loving corals, a single AI prime will have a hard time with the corners and deepest points of most tanks. I actually have 3 Primes on my 14 gallon cube (15" on each side), but I'm keeping anemones mainly (and Ricordea Florida), hence the need for higher intensity. (Two of them are green BTAs). By using three of them I can dial the spectrum down to a mainly blue one (you have done that to some degree) and spotlight them on three different areas of the tank.

I'm thinking its the light. I'll give it a little more time for them to adjust to the new temp, but I think I need to add another prime. You mentioned the spectrum-should I change anything? Its the same schedule I run my hydras on my 150, but they are supplimented with T5's.

 

[chizerbunoi]

If it was my tank I also would change the lights back to how you had them 3 months ago. Then if no change after a week I would turn off the refugium light. I have found that anemones like dirty tanks. But your call on that one.

 

[Cnidoblast]

I think it might be the fact the the diodes of the AI prime are too close together

one could try a big black box reef light - like the viparspectra


@40B Knasty recommended 1 part per million nitrate for zoa's so perhaps that could be why they are slow?

 

[ianryd]

I think it might be the fact the the diodes of the AI prime are too close together

one could try a big black box reef light - like the viparspectra


@40B Knasty recommended 1 part per million nitrate for zoa's so perhaps that could be why they are slow?

I have been dosing nitrates(forgot to mention) but I think my chaeto is consuming it

 

[Cnidoblast]

Half your chaeto biomass - somebody will be willing to buy it off of you!

 

[EakTheFreak]

Despite good parameters, my nem tank is struggling. It has been running for 18 months. I don't have a build thread but heres a little about it.
20 gal tall w/10 gal fuge. w/chaeto and miracle mud. Running filter floss in a cup. I dose TLF acro power 3xweekly. WC only if nutrients start to creep up
Barebottom, 15-20 lbs of rock.
Single AI prime LED lighting
Return pump is just under 500 gph, and 2 small wavemakers in tank provide gentle flow. Tunze ATO
Fish-Pair of Percula clowns, clown goby and YWM goby. Emerald crab and about 6 various snails.
Coral-RBTA, various zoas, pumping xenia, gsp, shrooms, chalice
Here are my params and lighting schedule

No corals seem really happy in this tank. My BTAs are not thriving. They are usually shrunk down but have their tentacles out. They have been like this for months. My zoas seem to be reaching for light.
Here are a few issues I have had in the past but have remedied.
-I had some peppermint shrimp that were for aptasia control that ate one of my BTA after the aptasia was gone. They are no longer in the tank.
-Had dynos bad for like 8 months, but finally beat them about 3 months ago.
-Dealt with high nutrients for a while last year, so I redid my aquascape and havent had any problems since.
-The latest things I have tried are moving the light closer, its now about 8" off the surface.
-Raising the temp-usually kept it at 75.5ish, raised it to 77ish.
The only other things it could be that I can think of are stray voltage(I have a grounding plug on the way), or the plastic container I have the miracle mud in is leaching something into the water (maybe I should ICP test?), or my light has gone dim (don't know if thats possible with LED) Here are a few pics

I have had brief periods where things have been good and everything seems happy, but it's been like this for months. I have kept larger tanks with no problems, but this nano has me stumped! Help!

I think your tank is far to clean! .04 for phosphates is low and then 0.2 for Nitrates is lower than NSW. I would shoot to have phosphates at .07-.10 & Nitrates to 5 ppm.

Do you ever feed reef roids or food to your nems? I have 3 BTA’s in my tank. Started as 1 and that split into 2 and then added a green highlighter one most recently.

I would also try elevating your magnesium if you can get phosphates & nitrates elevated. Run your magnesium @ 1400 and i bet you see everything looking happier!!

 

[Cnidoblast]

IMO i would try to:

1. half your chaeto biomass and lower the power of the algae reactor light
2. feed reef roids or maybe even live brine shrimp (do not go overboard on em as they will get caught in your filter and work long term to increase nitrate as they slowly decay)
3. If Mg2+ really is an issue one could try the magnesium supplement from BRS https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/magnesium-mix-for-2-part-maintenance-bulk-reef-supply.html

 

[ianryd]

I think your tank is far to clean! .04 for phosphates is low and then 0.2 for Nitrates is lower than NSW. I would shoot to have phosphates at .07-.10 & Nitrates to 5 ppm.

Do you ever feed reef roids or food to your nems? I have 3 BTA’s in my tank. Started as 1 and that split into 2 and then added a green highlighter one most recently.

I would also try elevating your magnesium if you can get phosphates & nitrates elevated. Run your magnesium @ 1400 and i bet you see everything looking happier!!

I

IMO i would try to:

1. half your chaeto biomass and lower the power of the algae reactor light
2. feed reef roids or maybe even live brine shrimp (do not go overboard on em as they will get caught in your filter and work long term to increase nitrate as they slowly decay)
3. If Mg2+ really is an issue one could try the magnesium supplement from BRS https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/magnesium-mix-for-2-part-maintenance-bulk-reef-supply.html

Ok I'll work on raising nutrients. My fuge light is not adjustable. I'll just run it half time for now. I was under the impression that Mg was ok at 1290, but I will try raising it once my nutrients are up. I'll give that all a try before I mess with my lighting. Thanks for the suggestions everybody

 

[Cnidoblast]

 

[Jekyl]

I have more of a ramp up/down time with lights at peak for 5 hours. May help, not sure.

 

[Cnidoblast]

I dobut ramp is too important for algae - running algae reactor lights half as long aught to be fine

 

[Thomas Danho]

Have you been feeding your BTA? Have you tried live phyto? Live phyto can remove contaminates and clean your water, outcompete nuisance algae and feed your filter feeders.
Give us a try,

Livestock - Tommy's Phyto Two 16oz total of 32oz of Live Phyto for only $20 w/ free shipping!

You always hear about Algae problems with people dumping chemicals and killing all their livestock, You don't have to do that! Dose live phyto and watch your algae disappear. The phyto will out-compete the nuisance algae in your aquarium and you will slowly watch your algae problem disappear...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Cnidoblast]

Increasing planktonic diversity is a good idea but I do not know if dumping a bag of phyto will be able increase your nitrate to the golden 1 ppm

 

[TriggersAmuck]

There is one method to increase residual nutrients and also encourage growth that is pretty simple: increasing the input, i.e. feeding. Gradually of course, to avoid sudden outbreaks, but with some weekly testing and incremental adjustments you might find a nice balance of high nutrients in, high nutrients out (exported and/or consumed).

 

[hds4216]

I have more of a ramp up/down time with lights at peak for 5 hours. May help, not sure.

Wow, my lights are peak for 9 hours haha. Wonder if I should reduce that.

 

[Thomas Danho]

Increasing planktonic diversity is a good idea but I do not know if dumping a bag of phyto will be able increase your nitrate to the golden 1 ppm

My suggestion was more aimed at strengthening the BTA by allowing it to consume more nutrients.
In reef systems, even a minor level of nitrate can cause damage as well as death to delicate corals, anemones, and other invertebrates, as well as some crustaceans. The acceptable range of nitrate for reef tanks is 0.25 ppm, but not more than 5 ppm