Struggling with water chemistry

[ttop24]

Ok let me give you some background info myself and this tank. I've kept freshwater, planted aquariums for about 10 years and then got out of the hobby till 1 year ago when my wife said "Hey I would love a saltwater aquarium." So I bought a 65 gallon, with 65lbs live rock. A Eshopps Sump, and a 29 Gallon glass tank for a Refugium with Refugium Mud connected to the Sump with a sky bridge that draws water from the sump to the refugium then back to the tank with the return pump. (about 40 gallons of water volume between refugium and sump) I also bought a Reef Octopus 110 ext protein skimmer and a Apex Neptune controller and wave maker. I waited a month for tank to cycle and settle down. then I added 20 Turbo snails, 20 of the nasarius snails and a fire Shrimp. I do once a week water changes of 30 Gallons for 20% water change. couple months later I added a yellow tank and 2 clown fish, a wrasse. 2 months after that I added a purple tang. Then shortly after that I notice my Nitrates had gone off the charts over night.
Nitrates 160 +
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
PH 8.2 - 8.3
Salinity 1.026

Api and Red sea Test Kit

So I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned everything sump, power heads, pumps...... and so on. Come to find out my water had nitrates in it even with the Ro/Di system I was using.....So off to the store to buy a new Ro/Di system. So no more nitrates in my water. So 2x a week I would do a 50% water change. No change in Nitrates. They are still off the charts. Feeding fish every other day. flakes. Not feeding any corals at this point. So I test everything right down to the Trash can I mix my water in. and I start getting a 1.0 -2.0 reading. Its coming from the Ro/Di and not the tap water. get another test kit and still same thing. 3 test kits later I buy a bigger and better Ro/Di with 2 stage Resin Cartridge and still getting ammonia. I probably should have done this a lot sooner but I take my water to the LFS and they don't read any ammonia. So I decide more water volume should help my nitrate problems. So I Buy a 120 Gallon Aquarium and set up the empty 65 Gallon next to it, both feeding into the Sump. Added 60 lbs live rock to the 120 and added more sand and maybe too much sand because I'm at 4-5 inches of sand I'm using the 60 Gallon Aquarium to mix my water then I turn on the pump and let that circulate through my sump for a couple days and then I do a new batch of water. After about 2 weeks of doing this I have my nitrates down. I also added a 10 more turbo snails and 10 more nassarious snails and a yellow headed gobby to keep my sand clean. Instead he plays B-52 bomber all day long and I have to blow off my rocks every day when I get home from work.
Nitrates 50
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Ph 8-2 -8.3
Salinity 1.026

So I decide I should go back to doing once a week water changes. So my last water change was Sunday and here it is Thursday. I am using instant ocean reef crystals
Nitrates 50
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Salinity 1.026
Calcium 470 (Red Sea Test) 520 (API)
Alk 11.5 (red Sea) 9 (API)
Magnesium 1500 (Red Sea)

What do I do? Everything seems to be High. Do I just wait it out? Stop doing water changes? Switch salts? ( And hope nitrates don't go back up)

 

[rsumner]

I can’t imagine salt is your problem, so I wouldn’t worry yourself with that.

Have you tried another test kit to make sure you aren’t off? I’ve never seen Nitrates of 150ppm even with an uncycled tank, so I would run up and snag a cheap ATI kit and double check.

There always a chance your tank could still not be cycled, but I would think all your inverts would die off with those high nitrate numbers.

If another kit shows the same, you could try some Sechem denitrate or similar product and some Dr Tim’s to give it a boost. You’re having culture issues with anaerobic bacteria.

 

[ttop24]

Ive used api and Red Sea both. Red sea is a really pretty Neon Dark Purple and Api is always a dark red. this last couple weeks is the only time its been below 100

 

[ttop24]

And I've bought several test kits of both api and red sea

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

Whats your PO4? You will need some to drive down NO3. You could try some Cheato in a refugium. Maybe a ATI water test is in order. It will test your RO/DI water also.

 

[ttop24]

I have cheato in refugium. I tested my water. im on well water near a farm. thats why I had nitates in well water. no clorine or chlorimines

 

[HB AL]

How about just carbon dosing, do it right and it works great.

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

The ATI test you send to a lab. They will test your tank and RO water. They test around forty things. It wouldn't be bad to see where you are. Look them up. That farm thing is a tough one, who knows what is leaching into the well water. I would consider talking to a RO company or Bulk Reef Supply about different DI resins.

 

[ttop24]

I talked with a RO company and they recommended the dual DI Resin which I'm running now. Ill check out the ATI test you talked about

 

[vegamedic]

4-5" of sand in the display? Any particular reason why? You made it seem like you added sand for the sake of it or hoping it would bring your nitrates down. Also, is there a reason you're trying to bring your nitrates down? Algae outbreak, corals not doing well, etc? Have you tested your phosphates? How quickly is your macroalgae growing?

You write that you've got two tangs, a wrasse, two clowns, and 40+ inverts in a 65 gallon. How big are the tangs and wrasse? You also write that you're feeding every other day, but how much? Bigger tangs and wrasses can eat a lot of food, you might just have a large fish bioload that isn't being exported quick enough for your liking.

 

[ZaneTer]

@ttop24
You really have to give us your PO4 level also.
If the fish are healthy then don’t panic. You have time to fix this.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I agree, getting a reading on PO4 would be very enlightening to determine if there is a reason your NO3 is so high. You mention that you have macro algae in a fuge, but is it growing? I would also get a Salifert test kit. Though nitrate tests are pretty good in general, even API, Salifert tends to be the most reliable for all types of tests.

You mention that you have added 60 snails ((20+20)+(10+10)), how many are still alive? The reason I ask is that is a lot of snails, and those snails contain a lot of nutrients, including nitrate. Snails are one of the hardest animals to acclimate correctly, and loses are to be expected if not done 100% right. So if you have a lot of empty snail shells, that might explain the source of your nitrate.

I would suggest getting a nitrate test done at your local LFS if you have one close enough.

Dennis

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok let me give you some background info myself and this tank. I've kept freshwater, planted aquariums for about 10 years and then got out of the hobby till 1 year ago when my wife said "Hey I would love a saltwater aquarium." So I bought a 65 gallon, with 65lbs live rock. A Eshopps Sump, and a 29 Gallon glass tank for a Refugium with Refugium Mud connected to the Sump with a sky bridge that draws water from the sump to the refugium then back to the tank with the return pump. (about 40 gallons of water volume between refugium and sump) I also bought a Reef Octopus 110 ext protein skimmer and a Apex Neptune controller and wave maker. I waited a month for tank to cycle and settle down. then I added 20 Turbo snails, 20 of the nasarius snails and a fire Shrimp. I do once a week water changes of 30 Gallons for 20% water change. couple months later I added a yellow tank and 2 clown fish, a wrasse. 2 months after that I added a purple tang. Then shortly after that I notice my Nitrates had gone off the charts over night.
Nitrates 160 +
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
PH 8.2 - 8.3
Salinity 1.026

Api and Red sea Test Kit

So I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned everything sump, power heads, pumps...... and so on. Come to find out my water had nitrates in it even with the Ro/Di system I was using.....So off to the store to buy a new Ro/Di system. So no more nitrates in my water. So 2x a week I would do a 50% water change. No change in Nitrates. They are still off the charts. Feeding fish every other day. flakes. Not feeding any corals at this point. So I test everything right down to the Trash can I mix my water in. and I start getting a 1.0 -2.0 reading. Its coming from the Ro/Di and not the tap water. get another test kit and still same thing. 3 test kits later I buy a bigger and better Ro/Di with 2 stage Resin Cartridge and still getting ammonia. I probably should have done this a lot sooner but I take my water to the LFS and they don't read any ammonia. So I decide more water volume should help my nitrate problems. So I Buy a 120 Gallon Aquarium and set up the empty 65 Gallon next to it, both feeding into the Sump. Added 60 lbs live rock to the 120 and added more sand and maybe too much sand because I'm at 4-5 inches of sand I'm using the 60 Gallon Aquarium to mix my water then I turn on the pump and let that circulate through my sump for a couple days and then I do a new batch of water. After about 2 weeks of doing this I have my nitrates down. I also added a 10 more turbo snails and 10 more nassarious snails and a yellow headed gobby to keep my sand clean. Instead he plays B-52 bomber all day long and I have to blow off my rocks every day when I get home from work.
Nitrates 50
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Ph 8-2 -8.3
Salinity 1.026

So I decide I should go back to doing once a week water changes. So my last water change was Sunday and here it is Thursday. I am using instant ocean reef crystals
Nitrates 50
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Salinity 1.026
Calcium 470 (Red Sea Test) 520 (API)
Alk 11.5 (red Sea) 9 (API)
Magnesium 1500 (Red Sea)

What do I do? Everything seems to be High. Do I just wait it out? Stop doing water changes? Switch salts? ( And hope nitrates don't go back up)

The only thing that seems high is nitrate, and there are various ways to lower it. As mentioned, a phosphate value may be useful, mostly to be sure you do not drive it too low while you try to drive down the nitrate.

Assuming phosphate doesn't go too low, organic carbon dosing or growing macroalgae would be good options.

This has more:

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION
https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/nitrate-in-the-reef-aquarium

 

[ttop24]

Ok sorry had to work today. Spent the last hour doing testing on the tank. think I might be cycling from adding the new live rock to the new 120. The LFS said they had cured it for atleast 6 months. I think I might be getting some die off maybe from it. I don't know.
API test kit
Po4 = .25
ammonia= .25
No2 = 2.0
No3= 160
Cal = 460
KH = 9


Red Sea test kit

No3 = 50+
Cal = 470
KH = 9
Mg = 1400

PH = 8.17
Salinity = 1.026

 

[ttop24]

Yes I added more sand because I had moved over the sand from the 65 gallon to the 120 gallon and thought I would need double what I already had. Well double actually was too much lol. Been thinking of moving some over to my empty 65 Gallon for if I end up stocking the 65 with frags down the road

I have all the nasseriuos snails and I think my hermits did in the first group of turbos that I had. So yes I probably have about 20 nasserious snails and about 10 turbos. I have slight algea on the glass. I have quite a bit in my refugium on the glass. I figured that would go away once my cheato takes off and nitrates are under control.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The nitrite reading may just be test error, but if real, the nitrate value is likely not that high. Many nitrate kits show a little nitrite as a lot of nitrate. 2 ppm nitrite can show as 200 ppm nitrate with some kits.

The phosphate, if real, is not limiting any nitrate removal methods.

 

[ttop24]

ive been using both redsea and api to test. because i didnt know if it was false or not

 

[ttop24]

Ok just bought a used Reef Octopus Skimmer in hopes to pull more stuff out of the water then the old skimmer. Upgraded from Reef Octopus 110 EXT to a Reef Octopus OPT 2000. From everything I read its rated for 200 gallon tank. I'm also contemplating going from a fine substrate to a little more coarse substrate so that I can increase my flow. I have 2 Neptune wavs that I cannot use because even at 5% power it blows the sand around. Right now I have 3 Hydor wavs on my back glass 2 that are 600 g/h the little one is I think is a 225. Gonna get these nitrates down one way or another if it kills me LOL