Stump remover to raise nitrates?

Dolphins18 · May 7, 2021

Hello,
APEX dosing pump failure has caused a windfall of issues in my large tank. I now have high PO4 and a completely stripped tank of nitrates. I need to even these back out and in the past would use a pre mixed liquid nitrogen solution, with this being a much larger tank I did some reading that certain stump removers can be used to raise the nitrates. This would be much cheaper if it does work well. I am a little skeptical on this and would like to know if this is a viable as if it is I will go get some from home depot.
If this is not safe I will just order a bunch of neonitro.

Thanks!

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 7, 2021

There's no reason to risk an impure product, and potassium is not be the best choice, IMO.
Food grade sodium nitrate is cheap and does not have a potassium rise risk.

Dolphins18 · May 7, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
There's no reason to risk an impure product, and potassium is not be the best choice, IMO.
Food grade sodium nitrate is cheap and does not have a potassium rise risk.

Would you recommend sodium nitrate more so than neonitro?

I've got nearly .3 po4 and 0 nitrates after a dosing pump failure.
Thank you!

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 7, 2021

Dolphins18 said:
Would you recommend sodium nitrate more so than neonitro?

I've got nearly .3 po4 and 0 nitrates after a dosing pump failure.
Thank you!

Yes. Brightwell does not indicate anything about concentration (cannot use a calculator), purity or composition.

Dolphins18 · May 7, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Yes. Brightwell does not indicate anything about concentration (cannot use a calculator), purity or composition.

I will order the sodium now, any chance you could run thru some dosing instructions with me?
Anything to be aware of if too much is used (etc)

Thank you SO MUCH!

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 7, 2021

I'd dose a few ppm per day until you see what maintains a few ppm.

You can use this calculator and the entry for potassium nitrate, and then use about 85% of the calculated amount since sodium nitrate is a bit more potent.

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

blasterman · May 9, 2021

I used to use stump remover and never had purity issues, but it sent my potassium levels through the roof when used continuously requiring water changes to get it below 400.

The stuff randy links is what I use now. Stupid cheap and quick from Amazon.

NabberNate · May 17, 2021

So I just started using stump remover and I'll definitely switch to sodium nitrate based on advice but I'm curious about something. I added 10 grams of the potassium nitrate to a gallon of rodi water thinking I would dose about half in my 150 plus sump and I get a reading of maybe 5ppm using api test kit. During tank cycling about 3 weeks ago I was in the 40's for nitrate so the test kit was working before. That leads to 3 scenarios.
1) I didn't use the calculator correctly and need to dose a considerable amount more
2) the test kit doesn't work well for sodium nitrate
3) the stuff is not anywhere close to pure

What are the most likely scenarios I'm really "stumped". Sorry I couldn't resist!

NabberNate · May 17, 2021

Update, I get 5ppm in my gallon to be dosed not in my tank after dosing.

ru4serious · May 17, 2021

NabberNate said:
So I just started using stump remover and I'll definitely switch to sodium nitrate based on advice but I'm curious about something. I added 10 grams of the potassium nitrate to a gallon of rodi water thinking I would dose about half in my 150 plus sump and I get a reading of maybe 5ppm using api test kit. During tank cycling about 3 weeks ago I was in the 40's for nitrate so the test kit was working before. That leads to 3 scenarios.
1) I didn't use the calculator correctly and need to dose a considerable amount more
2) the test kit doesn't work well for sodium nitrate
3) the stuff is not anywhere close to pure

What are the most likely scenarios I'm really "stumped". Sorry I couldn't resist!

I think without looking it up it was 10 grams per liter

blasterman · May 17, 2021

Seems low. A quarter teaspoon of potassium nitrate raises my 20gal from zero to about 10ppm or so. Doesnt take much.

Stump remover has worked for me in a pinch. Repeated use will drive up potassium levels though, and food grade sodium nitrate is pretty cheap.

NabberNate · May 17, 2021

So if a quarter teaspoon gets your 20 gallon to 10 ppm and I'm 10x the size then 2.5 teaspoons would do the same for me. Yeah, I put that much in one gallon and it's barely registering. I think what I purchased is garbage unless api can't test it properly.

rossco · May 17, 2021

I’ve been using stump remover for 5 years. here is the thread I started about it back then.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-nitrate-dosing-experience.242846/

corals are doing fine

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 17, 2021

rossco said:
I’ve been using stump remover for 5 years. here is the thread I started about it back then.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-nitrate-dosing-experience.242846/

corals are doing fine

But seriously, there's no reason to continue to use or recommend others use, a potentially impure product, when pure products are cheap and easy to obtain.

It's like advising folks to use tap water because it worked "for me". Is everyone's tap water the same? No. Is every brand and batch of stump remover the same? Is it worth the risk to find out?

rossco · May 17, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
But seriously, there's no reason to continue to use or recommend others use, a potentially impure product, when pure products are cheap and easy to obtain.

It's like advising folks to use tap water because it worked "for me". Is everyone's tap water the same? No. Is every brand and batch of stump remover the same? Is it worth the risk to find out?

Then don’t use it. I am comfortable using it.

The Spectracide MSDS sheet Shows potassium nitrate 100%. There may “potentially” be Impurities in a fraction of a percent. That doesn’t mean there is.

I am giving my personal experience with a highly successful SPS tank. Just like in the past when it was common to recommend and use Dow flake as a two part ingredient. “Wink”

What is the purity requirement of food grade other than generally regarded as safe?

I am apprehensive purchasing “food grade” chemicals from Amazon after the potassium chloride I tried left a precipitate behind even using twice the amount of ro/di water sufficient to dissolve that amount as listed in solubility charts.

NabberNate · May 17, 2021

I found a reagent grade of 5lbs on Amazon of sodium nitrate for under $30.

Seems like a win and I would go smaller in size but not sure how long it will last since my current experiment is failing to move the needle at all.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 18, 2021

rossco said:
Then don’t use it. I am comfortable using it.

The Spectracide MSDS sheet Shows potassium nitrate 100%. There may “potentially” be Impurities in a fraction of a percent. That doesn’t mean there is.

I am giving my personal experience with a highly successful SPS tank. Just like in the past when it was common to recommend and use Dow flake as a two part ingredient. “Wink”

What is the purity requirement of food grade other than generally regarded as safe?

I am apprehensive purchasing “food grade” chemicals from Amazon after the potassium chloride I tried left a precipitate behind even using twice the amount of ro/di water sufficient to dissolve that amount as listed in solubility charts.

I think you may have some misconceptions...

Food grade has a specific set of chemical purity requirements that vary from chemical to chemical. The batch must meet those chemical purity and impurity assays. In this case (sodium nitrate), the required specifications are laid out in FCC E251.

Before recommending Dowflake, I tested it extensively for impurities and also compared it to several hobby brands:

Aquarium Chemistry: Purity Of Calcium Chloride

Randy takes a look at a number of sources of calcium chloride and reports on them.

reefs.com

An MSDS only says what is added (that is, it is all potassium nitrate, not other individual ingredients). It says nothing about the purity of that potassium nitrate.

Sdot · May 18, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
There's no reason to risk an impure product, and potassium is not be the best choice, IMO.
Food grade sodium nitrate is cheap and does not have a potassium rise risk.

Yes!! This is the stuff i use. One pack or 50g per liter of water works well for me.