Stumped by sumps!

[tyler1503]

Hello everyone, I've been in this hobby for a few years now and only ever owned nanos. Im finally upgrading to my first big tank and it's a completely different world, so I almost feel like I'm starting all over again in this hobby. With that said I have a few newbie questions regarding sumps!
I already own my sump, but it's specifically made for bio balls. I'm wanting to remove all the baffles and replace them in a more suitable way. My question is, can I place a baffle anywhere in the sump creating any sized section I like? Or is there a bit of a guideline as to how tall and how large a section should be?
I'm planning on keeping a skimmer, small breeding net to hold live food, live rock and a return pump in it. I'm considering only a single baffle about 2/3 the height if the tank and the second section only just big enough for my return pump.
I don't have exact dimensions of the sump at the moment, but i can get them in the morning. I'll also get the footprint of the skimmer, return and breeding net.
Thanks in advance.

 

[bearjohnson]

You can add any baffle and section you want in the sump.

 

[Jimbo662]

Do a search on sump builds to see what others have done. That'll give you some good ideas based on what kind of set up you want.

 

[mcarroll]

Hello everyone, I've been in this hobby for a few years now and only ever owned nanos. Im finally upgrading to my first big tank and it's a completely different world, so I almost feel like I'm starting all over again in this hobby. With that said I have a few newbie questions regarding sumps!
I already own my sump, but it's specifically made for bio balls. I'm wanting to remove all the baffles and replace them in a more suitable way. My question is, can I place a baffle anywhere in the sump creating any sized section I like? Or is there a bit of a guideline as to how tall and how large a section should be?
I'm planning on keeping a skimmer, small breeding net to hold live food, live rock and a return pump in it. I'm considering only a single baffle about 2/3 the height if the tank and the second section only just big enough for my return pump.
I don't have exact dimensions of the sump at the moment, but i can get them in the morning. I'll also get the footprint of the skimmer, return and breeding net.
Thanks in advance.

IMO baffles are pretty much a waste. Except in rare circumstances* they just aren't necessary.

If you don't want yours the way they are, it may be worth more for you to sell it and just get a plain aquarium for your sump.

A plain aquarium gives you a ton more flexibility in how you use the space AND makes it 100% easier to keep clean.

This is how I run my sump and there's no way I'd put baffles in. I love it!

-Matt

* It was trendy for a while in the hobby to run A LOT more water than necessary through the sump, which caused micro-bubble problems...AFAICT this trend is really all that made baffles seem "normal" in the first place. 2x-4x you display's volume in turn over is completely adequate. The only legit modern usage I can think of would be to create a refugium area for sponges/algae where you'd need them to be separate from the main flow of the tank. For what you describe, I'd totally do an open sump.

 

[tyler1503]

Thanks for the input everyone!

IMO baffles are pretty much a waste. Except in rare circumstances* they just aren't necessary.

If you don't want yours the way they are, it may be worth more for you to sell it and just get a plain aquarium for your sump.

A plain aquarium gives you a ton more flexibility in how you use the space AND makes it 100% easier to keep clean.

This is how I run my sump and there's no way I'd put baffles in. I love it!

-Matt

* It was trendy for a while in the hobby to run A LOT more water than necessary through the sump, which caused micro-bubble problems...AFAICT this trend is really all that made baffles seem "normal" in the first place. 2x-4x you display's volume in turn over is completely adequate. The only legit modern usage I can think of would be to create a refugium area for sponges/algae where you'd need them to be separate from the main flow of the tank. For what you describe, I'd totally do an open sump.

The only reason I want the single baffle is incase my drain clogs up my return will run dry instead of pumping the entire sumps water volume back into the display and maybe overflowing it. I'd rather be safe than sorry. But I'm keeping mine simple so it's easy to clean like your saying
I'd love to sell my current sump and get a new one, but the stand is actually designed around this specific custom sized sump, so i may aswell just fix my current one instead of paying for a custom built new one.
Oh, and thanks for the flow trough the sump tip. My return pump is equal to my skimmer intake pump so I shouldn't have any unnecessary extra flow

 

[mcarroll]

Thanks for the input everyone!


The only reason I want the single baffle is incase my drain clogs up my return will run dry instead of pumping the entire sumps water volume back into the display and maybe overflowing it. I'd rather be safe than sorry. But I'm keeping mine simple so it's easy to clean like your saying
I'd love to sell my current sump and get a new one, but the stand is actually designed around this specific custom sized sump, so i may aswell just fix my current one instead of paying for a custom built new one.
Oh, and thanks for the flow trough the sump tip. My return pump is equal to my skimmer intake pump so I shouldn't have any unnecessary extra flow

A shut-off version of an ATO for your pump (one brand calls it a "pump saver" I think.) would be smarter....BUT!

If you have any real fear of the drain clogging, DO NOT put water in the tank. I mean it. There is no trick to setting up a good drain...even if you can't go all the way to a Herbie drain/whatever.

How are you setting up your drain, and what are you worried about getting into it?

What size/shape is the sump?

-Matt

 

[mfinn]

IMO baffles are important in a sump.
Using a skimmer in a sump requires a constant water level and even with a ato, most can't keep the level steady enough.
Using baffles will allow you to create a refugiums area in a sump and a baffle between macro algae and the return pump area is pretty important.

 

[mcarroll]

[...]Using a skimmer in a sump requires a constant water level and even with a ato, most can't keep the level steady enough.
[...]

My ancient (10+ years) run of the mill reed-float (Ultralife...they still make it) has no issue maintaining very precise level in my 30L sump. Baffles definitely aren't required for that.

In fact, the flexibility if being able to change the water level in my sump at will just by adjusting the ATO's float position has allowed me to accommodate four different skimmers with ease and make micro-adjustments for the skimmers that put gate valves to shame. Baffles would make all of this impossible or a huge pain.

I agree that a fuge is a good reason for having one...but that's more like a wall in the sump vs a baffle system.

-Matt

Edit: (to avoid "posting up the thread") Yet another advantage of no baffles is that the sump level runs (in my case anyway) about half-full, so there is a ton of overflow space vs a sump with baffles.

 

[beaslbob]

I went through what you are going through years ago.

IME the best thing I ever did and should have done sooner was to get a couple of plastic storange containers, a tank, and plumb them together to figure out what's going on.

this doesn't have to be a finished product and even a couple of old wastbaskets would be sufficient to practice.

the one thing I didn't consider is that the total water in the system is constant at any instance in time.

Also by definition the sump is the lowest container. If you have the containers above your tank then technically the tank is the sump.

the sump is also where water level varies. Due to evaporation, water change, water additions, etc etc, the sump level changes but the higher containers stay at the same level.

the main adjustment I forgot was that should a drain fail the water level in the sump lowers. The adjustment is to insure the sump runs out of water before upper containers flood.

Of course you have to insure that under power out the sump does not flood. and break up the reverse syphon through the pumped return lines.

And that normal operation returns when power returns.

Finally you can make a HOB overflow from $20 of pvc pipe that works just fine.

To me and to agree with previous posts, the really important thing is to get macro algaes in a fuge. then drain that fuge to a seperate sump container. In that way the water level in the fuge can be much higher. My original setup had a combined fuge/sump and the water level had to be much lower for proper adjustments.


After all those words, I just remembered I setup an in tank fuge. Just a $10 egg crate partition 3" in front of the back glass and a couple of cheapie shop lights behind the tank pointing forward. Nitrates went to 0 in three weeks, pods and macro thrived in there and my tangs were constantly grazing the macros that poked through. Actually the best and one of the cheapist things I did for that tank.


my .02

 

[tyler1503]

My sump, skimmer and return pump dimensions are as follows;
Sump - 23.75 x 12 x 14.5
Skimmer - 5.2 x 8.25 x 20
Live food holding net - 6.5 x 6.5 x 6
Return pump - 4 x 6 x 5
All dimensions are inches left to right x front to back x top to bottom.

Also, a pic of my sump as it is;

I think I do want the one baffle as I'm not going to use an ATO, it's some security that that section will run dry if there's a blockage in my drain (I have a lot of nerites that like to go walkabout on land and into deep, dark tunnels. Just like a drain pipe) and so ill have a constant water level for my skimmer.

Thanks for the input everyone. I have a lot of thinking and possibly some experimenting to do!

 

[Mercurio]

Petco is having their dollar a gallon sale. I just bought a 40GB for my 210 and I'm going to the glass shop to have some 1/4" thick glass baffles cut. I have some RTV silicone left from my tank reseal which I plan on using but if you want to go a cheaper route Home Depot sells aquarium safe silicone in the paint dept. It may be another route to consider so you have plenty of room to set it up however you want. I'm an avid DIY'er so let me know if I can help.

 

[tyler1503]

Thanks mercurio. I may just take you up in that offer.
I'm actually from Australia, so we don't have petco, so I can't take advantage of all these awesome deals I hear about.
I'll get a pic tomorrow when I'm not working so it's actually clear what I mean, but the stand is custom built to fit that specific size sump, so I don't have any options (that I can think of) but to rebuild my current sump. I have a 24gal I'd love to convert to a sump, but space is just too much of an issue.

 

[mcarroll]

Your sump has a 24x12" footprint...doesn't sound too crazy-custom. There are at least one or two standard tank sizes (here in the US anyway) that would fit that footprint.

Definitely looks "run of the mill".

Pics needed.

-Matt

 

[AZDesertRat]

Take a look at this:
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

I agree baffles are important. Not only do they allow you to maintain a constant level for the skimmer, they can also allow a refugium to be used and to give you a microbubble free spot for your return section and ATO.

 

[beaslbob]

No need to use expensive tanks. Plastic cheapie storage container do just fine and are much easier drill drain holes in.

I use pvc reducing fittings to form a bulkhead. And some rubber gasket material.

If it were me I would replace all those bio balls with cahetomorphia macro algae.

my .02

 

[tyler1503]

Your sump has a 24x12" footprint...doesn't sound too crazy-custom. There are at least one or two standard tank sizes (here in the US anyway) that would fit that footprint.

Definitely looks "run of the mill".

Pics needed.

-Matt

True, that size isn't crazy custom (it looks longer side to side but shorter front to back, I was just assumed it was without measuring) but there's not much point in putting down $50 on a whole new tank when I can just strip this one and resilicone it for $5 lol.
Thanks for the link desertrat
I'll look into some macros for the sump, thanks beaslbob. They're a bit hard to come by around here though.

 

[tyler1503]

Pics if my stand and sump;

 

[mcarroll]

Odd floor in that stand...makes me think the whole floor might be fungible.

I'd be more tempted than anything else so far to cut out more of the floor and fit a 30 gallon standard tank in place...or as big as you can.

Sell the existing sump, bio-balls and all, to finance it. Someone running a fish system (freshwater or salt) would love it.

An ATO would be a worthy investment too.

-Matt

 

[tyler1503]

Odd floor in that stand...makes me think the whole floor might be fungible.

I'd be more tempted than anything else so far to cut out more of the floor and fit a 30 gallon standard tank in place...or as big as you can.

Sell the existing sump, bio-balls and all, to finance it. Someone running a fish system (freshwater or salt) would love it.

An ATO would be a worthy investment too.

-Matt

Yea the floor is just that chipboard stuff. Easily replaceable, but a bit costly. I'll have to take some further measurements and decide if I can cut more of the floor out and use my 24gal as a sump. That's what I was planning to do if I built my own stand. Maybe I could just remove the floor completely and not bother adding a new one.

 

[mcarroll]

Yea the floor is just that chipboard stuff. Easily replaceable, but a bit costly. I'll have to take some further measurements and decide if I can cut more of the floor out and use my 24gal as a sump. That's what I was planning to do if I built my own stand. Maybe I could just remove the floor completely and not bother adding a new one.

It's possible something may be needed to brace the legs, but not a floor.

Is there anything structural under the floor?

-Matt