Sudden fish death timeline

[BristolEVO]

Background - I have an EVO 13.5g that I started just under 3 months ago. Cycled and added a diamond goby and some inverts followed by a clown pair. Been adding corals over time and the tank has been running well with good params. Had the normal dino and GHA outbreaks but nothing major.

Issues - To help with the GHA I added 2 additional snails last Saturday 8/24. I drip acclimated and added them in.

Sunday - I noticed those 2 snails not moving around a lot but active to a degree. Didn't think much of it.
Monday - Passing by the tank one of those 2 snails fell off the rocks onto the sand. I flipped him back onto his foot and went on with my day.
Tuesday - Snail hadn't moved and nether did the other one. Picked the one off the sand and it smelled "off" so I knew he had died. Checked the other one and he was not attached and also smelled. About this time the water developed a haze. Thinking the snails were releasing death toxins I did a 20% water change in the evening. Also at this time the clowns seemed lazy and not very excited to eat.
Wednesday - Woke up to 2 dead clowns. The diamond goby acting normal. Later in the day the goby was gulping and died within about an hour of me noticing. So now all 3 fish are gone along with the 2 snails I added last Saturday. All corals look normal and healthy, extended etc, and all the original snails I had along with 2 small hermits and an urchin are all fine. Did another 20% water change and added some Brightwell Microbacter7 I had.

Here are my params tested Tuesday evening before the water change:
PO4 - 0.90 ppm
NO3 - 12.6 ppm
Mg2 - 1060 pom
dKH - 9.4
pH - 7.6
Nitrate NO2 - 117 ppb
Ammonia NH3 - 0.14

I'm thinking the 2 new snails I added on Saturday 8/24 were diseased or just dying and created a bacteria bloom as evidenced by the hazy water. What do you all think? Also, what should be my next steps?? Thank you!

 

[Dburr1014]

Background - I have an EVO 13.5g that I started just under 3 months ago. Cycled and added a diamond goby and some inverts followed by a clown pair. Been adding corals over time and the tank has been running well with good params. Had the normal dino and GHA outbreaks but nothing major.

Issues - To help with the GHA I added 2 additional snails last Saturday 8/24. I drip acclimated and added them in.

Sunday - I noticed those 2 snails not moving around a lot but active to a degree. Didn't think much of it.
Monday - Passing by the tank one of those 2 snails fell off the rocks onto the sand. I flipped him back onto his foot and went on with my day.
Tuesday - Snail hadn't moved and nether did the other one. Picked the one off the sand and it smelled "off" so I knew he had died. Checked the other one and he was not attached and also smelled. About this time the water developed a haze. Thinking the snails were releasing death toxins I did a 20% water change in the evening. Also at this time the clowns seemed lazy and not very excited to eat.
Wednesday - Woke up to 2 dead clowns. The diamond goby acting normal. Later in the day the goby was gulping and died within about an hour of me noticing. So now all 3 fish are gone along with the 2 snails I added last Saturday. All corals look normal and healthy, extended etc, and all the original snails I had along with 2 small hermits and an urchin are all fine. Did another 20% water change and added some Brightwell Microbacter7 I had.

Here are my params tested Tuesday evening before the water change:
PO4 - 0.90 ppm
NO3 - 12.6 ppm
Mg2 - 1060 pom
dKH - 9.4
pH - 7.6
Nitrate NO2 - 117 ppb
Ammonia NH3 - 0.14

I'm thinking the 2 new snails I added on Saturday 8/24 were diseased or just dying and created a bacteria bloom as evidenced by the hazy water. What do you all think? Also, what should be my next steps?? Thank you!

How big were the snails?
A 13 gallon tank properly cycled would have to have pretty big snails to cause a problem.

Can you turn on your white lights and post a pic of the whole tank?

 

[MnFish1]

Background - I have an EVO 13.5g that I started just under 3 months ago. Cycled and added a diamond goby and some inverts followed by a clown pair. Been adding corals over time and the tank has been running well with good params. Had the normal dino and GHA outbreaks but nothing major.

Issues - To help with the GHA I added 2 additional snails last Saturday 8/24. I drip acclimated and added them in.

Sunday - I noticed those 2 snails not moving around a lot but active to a degree. Didn't think much of it.
Monday - Passing by the tank one of those 2 snails fell off the rocks onto the sand. I flipped him back onto his foot and went on with my day.
Tuesday - Snail hadn't moved and nether did the other one. Picked the one off the sand and it smelled "off" so I knew he had died. Checked the other one and he was not attached and also smelled. About this time the water developed a haze. Thinking the snails were releasing death toxins I did a 20% water change in the evening. Also at this time the clowns seemed lazy and not very excited to eat.
Wednesday - Woke up to 2 dead clowns. The diamond goby acting normal. Later in the day the goby was gulping and died within about an hour of me noticing. So now all 3 fish are gone along with the 2 snails I added last Saturday. All corals look normal and healthy, extended etc, and all the original snails I had along with 2 small hermits and an urchin are all fine. Did another 20% water change and added some Brightwell Microbacter7 I had.

Here are my params tested Tuesday evening before the water change:
PO4 - 0.90 ppm
NO3 - 12.6 ppm
Mg2 - 1060 pom
dKH - 9.4
pH - 7.6
Nitrate NO2 - 117 ppb
Ammonia NH3 - 0.14

I'm thinking the 2 new snails I added on Saturday 8/24 were diseased or just dying and created a bacteria bloom as evidenced by the hazy water. What do you all think? Also, what should be my next steps?? Thank you!

Curious - your Ammonia NH3 - does that signify free or total ammonia. If it is free ammonia, 0.02-0.05 can be extremely toxic, 0.13 is possibly what caused your problem. If it is total ammonia (NH4+NH3) thats still toxic, though with your pH that low it is somewhat protective, but not much. Are you sure your tests are correct?

Your nitrate is not helping - it's far too high. Your pH is low - as is your Mg. Curious about your alkalinity and Ca. Note that when inverts and fish are affected, its likely due to a toxin - like ammonia or O2

PS You've added a fair bit of stuff, in a small new tank. I'm assuming you have not done any water changes?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Background - I have an EVO 13.5g that I started just under 3 months ago. Cycled and added a diamond goby and some inverts followed by a clown pair. Been adding corals over time and the tank has been running well with good params. Had the normal dino and GHA outbreaks but nothing major.

Issues - To help with the GHA I added 2 additional snails last Saturday 8/24. I drip acclimated and added them in.

Sunday - I noticed those 2 snails not moving around a lot but active to a degree. Didn't think much of it.
Monday - Passing by the tank one of those 2 snails fell off the rocks onto the sand. I flipped him back onto his foot and went on with my day.
Tuesday - Snail hadn't moved and nether did the other one. Picked the one off the sand and it smelled "off" so I knew he had died. Checked the other one and he was not attached and also smelled. About this time the water developed a haze. Thinking the snails were releasing death toxins I did a 20% water change in the evening. Also at this time the clowns seemed lazy and not very excited to eat.
Wednesday - Woke up to 2 dead clowns. The diamond goby acting normal. Later in the day the goby was gulping and died within about an hour of me noticing. So now all 3 fish are gone along with the 2 snails I added last Saturday. All corals look normal and healthy, extended etc, and all the original snails I had along with 2 small hermits and an urchin are all fine. Did another 20% water change and added some Brightwell Microbacter7 I had.

Here are my params tested Tuesday evening before the water change:
PO4 - 0.90 ppm
NO3 - 12.6 ppm
Mg2 - 1060 pom
dKH - 9.4
pH - 7.6
Nitrate NO2 - 117 ppb
Ammonia NH3 - 0.14

I'm thinking the 2 new snails I added on Saturday 8/24 were diseased or just dying and created a bacteria bloom as evidenced by the hazy water. What do you all think? Also, what should be my next steps?? Thank you!

Ammonia slightly up and mag low and po4 approaching high point. Calcium important for snails and is there sufficient food for the snails?
How and how long did you acclimate the snails?
PO4- .06 -.1
Calcium 400-440
ammonia <.025
mag 1300-1400

 

[BristolEVO]

How big were the snails?
A 13 gallon tank properly cycled would have to have pretty big snails to cause a problem.

Can you turn on your white lights and post a pic of the whole tank?

They were each about the size of a quarter, maybe a touch bigger. All I really have to go on so far is the introduction of the new snails and then the occurrences. I can post a white light pic this evening when home, but you'll just see the scape and some corals.

 

[BristolEVO]

Curious - your Ammonia NH3 - does that signify free or total ammonia. If it is free ammonia, 0.02-0.05 can be extremely toxic, 0.13 is possibly what caused your problem. If it is total ammonia (NH4+NH3) thats still toxic, though with your pH that low it is somewhat protective, but not much. Are you sure your tests are correct?

Your nitrate is not helping - it's far too high. Your pH is low - as is your Mg. Curious about your alkalinity and Ca. Note that when inverts and fish are affected, its likely due to a toxin - like ammonia or O2

PS You've added a fair bit of stuff, in a small new tank. I'm assuming you have not done any water changes?

Yes the ammonia is elevated a bit. My tests were done with a Hanna multichecker which is new. I'll grab a test later with my RedSea kit.

Agreed, I think some sort of toxin is to blame. The params aren't THAT far off to cause such a fast die off.

I do 10%-20% (1g or 2g) weekly water changes and since Tuesday when finding the dead snails and seeing the hazy water I did 20% changes both Tues night and Wed night.

Salinity is always 1.024 and temp is consistent at 78F

 

[Tamberav]

My guess is bacterial bloom caused low oxygen and the fish suffocated.

Make sure there is good agitation of the waters surface as well.

When inverts are happy but fish die, usually parasite or low oxygen. A toxin would likley affect the corals and inverts, not just fish.

 

[BristolEVO]

Ammonia slightly up and mag low and po4 approaching high point. Calcium important for snails and is there sufficient food for the snails?
How and how long did you acclimate the snails?
PO4- .06 -.1
Calcium 400-440
ammonia <.025
mag 1300-1400

Yes the mag has been low I've been trying to bring it up over the course of a few weeks now. I do dose 1/2tsp per gallon of Kalkwasser via my ATO RODI. Been doing that about 3 - 4 weeks I'd have to look at my notes when I get home later.

I drip acclimated the new snails about 45 mins. They really didn't move much from where I originally placed them. There is sufficient food. They never really went looking for it like my other inverts do.

 

[BristolEVO]

My guess is bacterial bloom caused low oxygen and the fish suffocated.

Make sure there is good agitation of the waters surface as well.

When inverts are happy but fish die, usually parasite or low oxygen. A toxin would likley affect the corals and inverts, not just fish.

This is my guess as well. I have one of the 2 returns at the surface making good agitation. The pump is an AI Axis 20 running at 100%.

 

[BristolEVO]

I appreciate all the replies and diagnostics!

Before too much time passes, what should I be doing to get things back in order?

Do I need to add food to the tank to keep beneficial bacteria from dropping off?
Water changes and how big? I've been told to do daily small changes?
Should I add something like Dr Tims one and only to help combat whatever is in there?
I added carbon and a small chemipure blue nano to the 1st overflow.

Most importantly, how will I know if I can add fish again?

 

[MnFish1]

My guess is bacterial bloom caused low oxygen and the fish suffocated.

Make sure there is good agitation of the waters surface as well.

When inverts are happy but fish die, usually parasite or low oxygen. A toxin would likley affect the corals and inverts, not just fish.

I believe his inverts (the snails) died.

 

[MnFish1]

I appreciate all the replies and diagnostics!

No problem

Before too much time passes, what should I be doing to get things back in order?

Do I need to add food to the tank to keep beneficial bacteria from dropping off?

No

Water changes and how big? I've been told to do daily small changes?

Here is a calculator you can use to determine how much water to change and how often:

Effect of Water Changes Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the effect of repeated water changes on the concentration of a given substance.

www.hamzasreef.com

Should I add something like Dr Tims one and only to help combat whatever is in there?
I added carbon and a small chemipure blue nano to the 1st overflow.

I would not.

Most importantly, how will I know if I can add fish again?

When you've corrected all of the issues. PS - what is still alive now in the tank?

 

[Dburr1014]

I believe his inverts (the snails) died.

Wednesday - Woke up to 2 dead clowns. The diamond goby acting normal. Later in the day the goby was gulping and died within about an hour of me noticing. So now all 3 fish are gone along with the 2 snails I added last Saturday.

 

[BristolEVO]

No problem

No

Here is a calculator you can use to determine how much water to change and how often:

Effect of Water Changes Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the effect of repeated water changes on the concentration of a given substance.

www.hamzasreef.com

I would not.

When you've corrected all of the issues. PS - what is still alive now in the tank?

Thanks! I'll just stick to water changes and let some time pass.

I still have a couple nassarius snails, 3 turbo snails, 2 very small blue leg hermits, and a nickel size tuxedo urchin. For corals I have a duncan, few small torches, couple baby zoas, baby acan, pectina frag, and a 1.5" bubble tip nem that was given to me.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks! I'll just stick to water changes and let some time pass.

I still have a couple nassarius snails, 3 turbo snails, 2 very small blue leg hermits, and a nickel size tuxedo urchin. For corals I have a duncan, few small torches, couple baby zoas, baby acan, pectina frag, and a 1.5" bubble tip nem that was given to me.

And just to update everyone - those are fine (note - they may tolerate ammonia slightly better than hard corals. Did you notice any changes to your coral?

 

[Tamberav]

I believe his inverts (the snails) died.

my understanding was the snails were new and died due to some unknown factor and caused the bacterial bloom with their rotting corpses. But that all existing inverts are doing well.

 

[MnFish1]

my understanding was the snails were new and died due to some unknown factor and caused the bacterial bloom with their rotting corpses. But that all existing inverts are doing well.

Yes - thats why I asked - and you might very well be absolutely correct

 

[BristolEVO]

A couple people asked for an all white light picture. Corals are getting sleepy they are usually fully open and extended.

With blues

 

[BristolEVO]

And just to update everyone - those are fine (note - they may tolerate ammonia slightly better than hard corals. Did you notice any changes to your coral?

So far the corals all seem the same as they have been for the past weeks. Which is good. I moved my wavemaker up near the surface and it grabs a little air when it surges. Makes some additional aeration for now.

 

[BristolEVO]

This morning the water is MUCH clearer after leaving the wavemaker blowing bubbles all night. Corals still look good!