Sudden fish die off??

[67RedDonzi]

Hi everyone, I am new to the forum and have a few questions. I wont say that I am a complete newbie at saltwater as I had tanks several years ago. Though my brother did most of the work, I just enjoyed learning. Anyway, it has been several years sense I had a saltwater tank in the house and I have forgotten a lot!

A little info on my tank. It is a 40 gallon that was set up about 3 months ago. I have been getting a lot of my help from my local fish store but to be honest, a lot of what he tells me is contradictive to what I learned from my previous years with saltwater. Then again I know things can change a bit so I have been listening to him.

About two weeks ago my marineland heater gave out (had it less then 3 months) and the tank temp dropped from 80 degrees to 64 overnight. Needless to say my fish didn't appreciate this. My Mandarin Dragonet was dead that morning and everyone else was in a bit of shock. After warming the tank back up they seemed to be ok. Well maybe 4 days later I noticed my Banded sleeper goby was spending a lot of time near the surface and not filter feeding, two days after I originally noticed that, he was dead. The next day it was the cleaner shrimp, the day after that, the red scooter blenny (or dragonet). two days passed and then the Coral Beauty Angel died ( he had seemed to be doing great sense the water warmed back up). The only issue I had noticed with the coral beauty angel was that he had white dots and almost dust looking film on him. I hadn't noticed him scratching on rocks, breathing heavy, acting sick, he was even eating great. None of the other fish had the white spots. I keep thinking ich but no one else has it.

So what I have left is a blue yellow tail damsel (shocking right haha) well he seems fine other then I noticed today that his right eye is bulging. It almost looks like he has a clear cap on it. Could this be popeye?

Other then fish, I have 3 hermit craps, several snails, and two soft corals. All which seem to be doing very well. I picked up a test kit the other day and everything seems within range. Of coarse it is just a strip test kit so nothing is exact.
PH is around 8.0
Alkalinity: 240ppm
Nitrite: 0.5
Nitrate: 10
The hardness test was for freshwater so i'm not sure if it makes a difference....it was 425

Ok so my question is...can all of this be from the heater going out? or do you think I have other issues going on as well? I do have a protein skimmer ordered and on the way.

Sorry about the novel. It has been quite a while sense I've had a tank and i'm just not sure what is going on. Thank you in advance!

 

[SeahorseKeeper]

The heater may have been a contributing factor that tipped the scale. Did you quarantine your new additions? I would strongly recommend setting up a quarantine tank and quarantining the damsel. Then, quarantine any new additions.

 

[mcarroll]

The heater is definitely a bummer and a setback, but...

That sound like a lot of fish in a small tank, as well as a lot for a tank that new.

I would double up on "nothing good happens fast in a reef tank" and have fewer/smaller fish going forward.

Good luck!

-Matt

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

The heater may have been a contributing factor that tipped the scale. Did you quarantine your new additions? I would strongly recommend setting up a quarantine tank and quarantining the damsel. Then, quarantine any new additions.

+1 I didn't qt until I had a similar experience to yours (minus the heater problem) with a 180g...added a sick fish without knowing it and one by one...almost every one of my fish died...

Now I'll never add another fish without quarantining...just wish the lesson hadn't cost so much...a qt tank is a MUST HAVE in this hobby.

 

[67RedDonzi]

Just an update: My Damsel is now covered in white specks, a clear film, and spots of his scales look almost dark blue/black. This all happened overnight to him. Could ich show up so fast, or could this be something else?

Thank you so much for the responses so far! What size does the QT tank need to be? Do I have to have live rock, sand, etc in it?

 

[rworegon]

A couple of things jump out at me as possible contributers to your problem. First is the heater. THe temp swing could definately stress the fish. Stressed fish get sick much more easily than calm content fish. Second is the Nitrite. Very toxic to fish. Fish can tolerater Nitrate in some concentration but not Nitrite. A mandarin in a 3 month old 40 is asking for trouble, especially with another dragonette and a sand sifting goby. Very likely would have starved to death. Dragonette's are actually pretty disease resistant.
I would definately qt the remaining fish for at least 2 months. Let your tank go fallow, (no fish) for 8 to 12 weeks. If it is ich the parasite will die off without a fish host. I'm sorry for your losses but this is all too common for new tanks.

 

[67RedDonzi]

If I let the tank sit for 8-12 weeks with no fish, will this get rid of the ich completely in the tank? I have heard before that once your tank has ich it will always be in there...or that could have been the copper based medications that i'm thinking of? Just want to make sure. I'm not thinking the damsel is going to last long after what he looks like this am, should I wait until he dies and then set up a QT? He is the only fish left in the tank at the moment. also I do have an extra 10 gal tank. would that work for a QT? How long should I have fish in a QT before putting them in the main tank? What kind of things should I look for? just make sure they are eating, active (according to there species), no spots or other odd looking ailments? Sorry for putting this all in one paragraph. For some reason my laptop is acting funky

 

[67RedDonzi]

oops I forgot, Will the protein skimmer help the Nitrite problem enough? I do remember from my past experience that Nitrate and Nitrites are things to watch for but I couldn't remember at what levels they became harmful. 0 is best correct? If I have enough copepods in my tank will that be enough for future dragonets if I want to have a sand sifting goby as well? or do I just need to have a larger tank for this? We are thinking about getting a larger tank at one point but thought a smaller one would be a good starter...size wise and money wise.

 

[rworegon]

Yes, the ich will be gone. The parasite requires a fish host to complete its life cycle. To be sure go the entire 12 weeks. During that time don't add anything to your tank. Just do regular water changes and basic maintenance. Your inverts will be fine. Do very light feedings, some call them ghost feedings, to keep the bacteria up, maybe once or twice a week. a few flakes or pellets wshould be fine. This will also give you a chance to get the water chemistry very stable.

I have a 10 gal I use as a quarantine. It has a heater and a couple of HOB filters for flow. You could get by with one. Just a couple of PVC fittings for hiding places. I almost always have some filter floss in the sump of my main system so when I get a new fish and need to quarantine I use the filter floss from the sump to put in the filter in the Qt so the tank doesn't need to go through a cycle. Keep the new fish in the QT for a minimum of 4 weeks, 6 is better. THe puprpose of A QT is more than just to observe and make sure they are disease free. It also give the new fish a chance to de-stress from the chaos of being caught, moved to a wholesaler, moved to a fish store, caought again, moved to your house, etc. It gives the fish a chance to start eating without competition, get some weight put on, and generally become comfortable with you as a the "food guy." This also gives you the opportunity to observe the fish and watch for any signs of illness. If you do this with every fish, it is likely you will not get ich in your tank again. Keep in mind that any new addition to your tank, fish, coral, invert, has the potential to introduce some sore of pathogen to your system. I would suggest only get livestock from trusted sources.
Good luck and like some else said, "Nothing good happens fast in this hobby."

 

[rworegon]

oops I forgot, Will the protein skimmer help the Nitrite problem enough? I do remember from my past experience that Nitrate and Nitrites are things to watch for but I couldn't remember at what levels they became harmful. 0 is best correct? If I have enough copepods in my tank will that be enough for future dragonets if I want to have a sand sifting goby as well? or do I just need to have a larger tank for this? We are thinking about getting a larger tank at one point but thought a smaller one would be a good starter...size wise and money wise.

I have a mandarin in a 39 cube. He is the only fish in the tank. He has decimated a population explosion of pods. The tank does have a small refugium section with chaeto that grows pods but I still restock it occasionally. Mandarins don't have a normal digestive tract like other fish. They pretty much eat all day long and don't store any extra. Most people would not recommend a mandarin in any tank less than a year old, simply because the ecosystem isn't well established before that. Also water chemistry is easier to keep stable after some time.

Some people will tell you that zero Nitrates is your target but if you do some research you will find that some measurable Nitrates are beneficial, as long as its a very low measurement. Corals, and clams do well with some nitrate. This is why the most successful reefs have plenty of fish. The fish poop, causing nitrates which are then taken in as food by corals and clams. Its all a balancing act. Nitrites are a completely different store. Nitrites ave very toxic at very low levels. The presence of nitrites at any level indicated an incomplete nitrogen cycle.

 

[67RedDonzi]

What is an HOB filter? Do you use any sand in your QT tank? Thank you for all of the information, it gives me a lot to think about. Though bummed that a mandarin isn't a good idea, he was quite entertaining to watch. oh and a side note...is this odd or just coincidence: My fish all died in the opposite order that they went in. As in I bought them starting with the damsel, coral beauty angel, red scooter blenny, cleaner shrimp, banded sleeper goby, and then the mandarin. The first to go was the Mandarin then the goby and so on?

 

[bobstir]

while i don't know that it would kill the fish, Alkalinity: 240ppm equates to 13.44 Dkh. This is over the recommended range you want to be in which is b/w 8 and 12.

 

[rworegon]

Hob is hang on the back. No sand in qt. If you need meds sand will absorb some and mess with your concentrations. That's what the pvc fittings are for. They provide hiding places for the fish and are non porous. They are easy to clean and sterilize if you need to.