Suggestions for refugium lighting

[Dj City]

It's not scientific, but it does show really good growth in a relatively short time period

 

[Want2BS8ed]

All valid points. For me I want to run my fuge light for 12 hours so a high intensity light like the h380 is way overkill. If it were a FW tank with that light, I’d only run it a few hours a day.

In terms of ROI, I have had to have amazon replace one taotronics bulb that died but they stood behind it. It has 3k reviews which made me pretty comfortable with the purchase. I’ll need to go through ten of these bulbs before buying two h80s would have been the better bet.

If the h380 could be dimmed I’d go back to that in a second. All that being said, I’m pretty sure Triton recommends t5s for the fuge which opens a whole other conversation on this.

Well said and so long as the spectral outputs are truly identical, there's no arguing the price differential.

The t5's Triton recommends I can speak to with first hand knowledge...

I use a 125g long aquarium as a sump, 42" of which is dedicated to the refugium. 18" is lit by a single H380 and the remaining 24" by a 6-bulb Hamilton fixture as Triton recommends using broad spectrum bulbs. There is a notable difference in growth between the two and the LED wins hands down.

Lots of waisted energy and unneeded spectrum in those t5's.

M

 

[ReefingwithO]

I think the ACKE is a few watts less than the H80 (12-watts vs 15-watts)... not that 3-watts is worth $100, however the spectrum graphs are not identical. Carrying over experience from freshwater planted tanks, superfluous spectrums can lead to unintended consequences and undesirable algae growth. Not saying the ACKE will do that, but there is something to be said for quality of light over quantity.

Will you be doing a side by side between the UFO and H380? Interested to see what you find.

M

I only used my seneye to measure the spectrum, not exactly a scientific level instrument but for this it’s good enough, spectrums were close enough that I thought it was ok.

I’m trying to grow algae in a sump to absorb nutrients and prevent it from growing in the display. The fact that the spectrum is slightly off and might grow a small amount of another type of algae is ok with me.

Not specific to you Want2BS8ed just my overall thoughts to people who say “Home Depot” lights with a reflector grow cheato just fine.

I’m not looking for “fine” I’m trying to use macroalgea as my primary nutrient export method. I think it’s worth investing in or looking at other options. Maybe not the high price of Kessils but there are other options.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

I only used my seneye to measure the spectrum, not exactly a scientific level instrument but for this it’s good enough, spectrums were close enough that I thought it was ok.

I’m trying to grow algae in a sump to absorb nutrients and prevent it from growing in the display. The fact that the spectrum is slightly off and might grow a small amount of another type of algae is ok with me.

Not specific to you Want2BS8ed just my overall thoughts to people who say “Home Depot” lights with a reflector grow cheato just fine.

I’m not looking for “fine” I’m trying to use macroalgea as my primary nutrient export method. I think it’s worth investing in or looking at other options. Maybe not the high price of Kessils but there are other options.

That's cool. Started to ask where you got the PAR and PUR numbers from earlier.

Was the graph in your earlier post from your seneye?

Get your point on the "Home Depot" lights and absolutely agree, there is vast difference between survival and growth.

Still looking forward to your results on the UFO's and appreciate the explanation.

M

 

[Fritzhamer]

I only used my seneye to measure the spectrum, not exactly a scientific level instrument but for this it’s good enough, spectrums were close enough that I thought it was ok.

I’m trying to grow algae in a sump to absorb nutrients and prevent it from growing in the display. The fact that the spectrum is slightly off and might grow a small amount of another type of algae is ok with me.

Not specific to you Want2BS8ed just my overall thoughts to people who say “Home Depot” lights with a reflector grow cheato just fine.

I’m not looking for “fine” I’m trying to use macroalgea as my primary nutrient export method. I think it’s worth investing in or looking at other options. Maybe not the high price of Kessils but there are other options.

You can provide so much light that you'll strip everything out of the water and starve the plants in this nutrient depleted environment. From the planted tank world, when you provide lights like we use you have to dose fertilizer and tons of trace elements to keep up. When you run lower light or light for less hours, you don't have to dose as much. My kids each have a dirt bottom tank in their rooms that haven't seen a water change in years. We also don't dose but the trade off is we don't have explosive growth. We provide little light and we get little growth. The nutrients are nill in each tank and come from fish waste and the breakdown of food. Diana Walstad has a great book on this. I believe its called the "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" or something like that. It's also called the Natural method and its similar to what we're trying to do here in our fuges as the plants are the sole nutrient export in a planted tank. Water changes are never done, ever.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

You can provide so much light that you'll strip everything out of the water and starve the plants in this nutrient depleted environment. From the planted tank world, when you provide lights like we use you have to dose fertilizer and tons of trace elements to keep up. When you run lower light or light for less hours, you don't have to dose as much. My kids each have a dirt bottom tank in their rooms that haven't seen a water change in years. We also don't dose but the trade off is we don't have explosive growth. We provide little light and we get little growth. The nutrients are nill in each tank and come from fish waste and the breakdown of food. Diana Walstad has a great book on this. I believe its called the "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" or something like that. It's also called the Natural method and its similar to what we're trying to do here in our fuges as the plants are the sole nutrient export in a planted tank. Water changes are never done, ever.

Great book. Got it when first published and have been a long time fan of hers. That book is one that should be in every FW plant enthusiasts library even if they are not particularly a fan of her low tech method.

We all realize though that under the Triton method, macro algae is a nutrient sink and not a nutrient exporter? Macros are fully expected to release those nutrients back into the system at some point. Nutrient exporters would be your skimmer, carbon and GFO/aluminum based media for phosphates. Triton specifically recommends multiple species of algae and letting the mass ebb and flow based on the tanks requirements and not trimming.

And the extra nutrients (in theory - I do dose nitrates) are in the 4 parts of Triton's Core supplements. The amount dosed is based on a target Alkalinity, the demand of which is regulated by the growth of your coral. And that's the goal here, growing coral, not macro algae (although at some point I would love to attempt an Adey style sea grass lagoon - another good book for both FW and reef enthusiasts: "Dynamic Aquaria: Building Living Ecosytems" by Walter Adey and Karen Loveland)

While I may take Triton to task for some of their recent business decisions, the simplicity of their system is a welcome change to more traditional reefkeeping methods. Similar to moving from a high intensity, CO2 driven planted tank to Walstad's low tech method (or where I have had my greatest success: Tom Barr's Estimative Index, which by its very nature is the antithesis to Triton's zero water change regime).

Ultimately though you are spot on, but you don't necessarily wind up where you thought you would in the end. In both theory and practice macros can outstrip nutrients - especially in new tanks IMO (look for d2minis attempt at the Triton method where we both chronicled similar startup problems), but the interesting thing is the nutrients are self limiting and eventually balance out to the needs of the corals in your display tank.

I initially stocked my Triton refugium with a half dozen different Caulerpas plus Chaetomorpha, Gracilaria, Mangroves and Ulva. The initial growth was phenomenal across the board. 2-3 months in I was devastated watching everything melt. The hard part was not touching it.

Now it's like Christmas every time I go poking around the sump, because there is some new growth I was certain was long gone that has come roaring back to life. It's actually pretty cool to watch the ebb and flow.

Sorry... got excited and didn't mean to get so long winded.

In the end it's ultimately about patience and balance, which goes to the heart of your point regarding Walstad's book.

M

 

[Chris Mitchell]

To make myself clear. I agree with you totally. Cheap usually isn’t better. And with the money I have invested in my display, and every tank before this one, going cheap on the fuge light could make it the weakest link. Not good economy. However. I have done it before. I used the cheap yellow compact fluorescent work lights. You know? The ones before they were curly. I put two of them over a 20 long sump. I sold the cheato to my LFS for $8 per softball size piece. In 6 months I had like a $230 credit. Anywho, I am trying to start out cheap. And work my way up. Apparently, this system must be deficient in something other than N, or P. Sorry for the rant, old school dies hard!

In regards to t5’s. Has anyone tried the horticulture, deep red, and blue bulbs? My local grow shop has just about every spectrum that’s good for plants.

http://www.horticulturesource.com/m...DKoR0UkCn678-w-rdt3xrUTL7VGTeaN8aAnfIEALw_wcB

Or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/232660...9255-0%26rvr_id%3D1447757801798&ul_noapp=true

 

[Dj City]

this pic was just taken.
Again, this is not scientific. It's just really REALLY good growth from my Growstar ufo light.

 

[Dj City]

I can't argue with the results!

 

[Dj City]

January 2nd



Feb 7th

February 24th

 

[gpwdr]

Full spectrum T-5 Razor

 

[RevJames]

I started running an H80 about a month ago. 100% intensity on the grow setting 24/7. My chaeto looks amazing! Dark green and growing tight.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

Full spectrum T-5 Razor

gpwdr, what lights are you using over your DT now? If I recall some time ago you swapped out a Giesemann for a Kessil/T5 combo.

Thx,

M

 

[Chris Mitchell]

Just an update. I tested for iron, which was in the acceptable range. So I purchased the ATI ICP test. Submitted it 4 days ago, for a broader look at things. I have been running 3 of the Tao tronics 36 watt par 38 plant bulbs. I added a forth bulb two weeks ago, and have noticed increased growth. However nothing impressive. In my opinion these bulbs have the proper spectrum, except for the UV. However they lack in intensity. So , based upon the reviews in this thread, I pulled the trigger on the 300 watt Growstar UFO light. IMO with the way the cheato grows in a mat across the surface of the water, the current lights just cannot punch through it to light the under side. We will see.

 

[Chris Mitchell]

Here are some pics of my current lighting setup. This sump is setup the way Triton recommends.

 

[Dj City]

Before trimming on Feb 24th

After trimming on Feb 24th

Today March 3rd

The Growstar is absolutely a great light for a fuge without having to spend hundreds on a kessil.

There is just no doubt about it!

 

[Chris Mitchell]

Before trimming on Feb 24th

After trimming on Feb 24th

Today March 3rd

The Growstar is absolutely a great light for a fuge without having to spend hundreds on a kessil.

There is just no doubt about it!

Received the Growstar 300 yesterday. This thing is a beast! Since this light is over twice the power as the last one, I have cut the time the light is on back to three hours per day. Slow increases every other day to acclimate the algae is what I am thinking. Is that what you have done?