Sump baffle height HELP!!!!!!!!!!!

[Duane Fagan]

New to sumps I need help figuring out how high to place my baffles the display tank will be 96x24x24 and the sump is 72x18x24 I want maximum water volume in the sump so how high should I put the baffles I've seen diy videos saying leave about 2" from the top of the sump but I see people who put there highest baffle at like 10" with makes no sense to me cause there's so much room left that could've increased the water volume for the whole system please help me out thanks this is for a freshwater setup so no skimmer

 

[CodyRVA]

You just need to do some math. Measure your dimensions to find the volume of the water that will drain to the sump from gravity alone; as if your pump were to fail. Take that number, and make sure you leave slightly more than this amount of space in your sump to accommodate for the water. So, if you have a 100G tank, and at capacity it will drain 10G of water from gravity alone through your overflow, your sump must have 10G of free space, again... at least 10G, you should accommodate for more. Then, when designing your sump do the same, measure your dimensions, find the volume, and find how much space from the top of your sump tank is required to accommodate for that excess water. This should be the max height for your baffles, all other baffles should be below this line. Another thing to consider is displacement of anything in the sump such as rock, equipment, refugium items like sand, plants, etc. Any of these things will obviously take up space and reduce the total volume available in your sump, another reason why over accommodating for the sump space is recommended. Hope that helps?

 

[Duane Fagan]

It helped thanks

 

[blitz49]

Word of advice for baffle height, make sure the water level can accommodate most skimmer water level. I made the mistake of maximizing sump water volume, and now I regret cause my interior tank stand is 24" high and my sump water level is at 12". This didn't give me much choice for skimmers.

 

[Duane Fagan]

It's for a freshwater setup no skimmer needed

 

[blitz49]

LOL.... got lazy and didn't read that last part.

 

[Duane Fagan]

No worries lol

 

[sil40sx]

Just leave a couple inches for the overflow box water if you want maximum water capacity (depends how much water in your overflow box. Or turn off your pump, and fill it with new salt water to get specific amount of water that goes back there)


Also, add a check valve on the return pump for a piece of mind.

 

[Duane Fagan]

Just leave a couple inches for the overflow box water if you want maximum water capacity (depends how much water in your overflow box. Or turn off your pump, and fill it with new salt water to get specific amount of water that goes back there)


Also, add a check valve on the return pump for a piece of mind.

It's going to be a freshwater setup I just bought a overflow kit and decided to ask some questions anyway I was wondering the same thing meaning if I make the highest baffle 21" leaving 3" from the top and fill the setup in this order. Fill display until water starts to get into the sump keep going until sump is about 3" from the top stop then turn pump on let it level out mark that level as max running it should never flood if I had a power failure right? And yes I'll have a wye check valve and siphon break from return line. So basically only water draining back would be from the overflow box. And that is already handled by the way I filled it right? What say you? I hope I didn't confused you

 

[CodyRVA]

Just leave a couple inches for the overflow box water if you want maximum water capacity (depends how much water in your overflow box. Or turn off your pump, and fill it with new salt water to get specific amount of water that goes back there)


Also, add a check valve on the return pump for a piece of mind.

Not sure what setup you're referencing in this method, but I know for my setup this would end in failure. My water level is higher than the bottom of the overflow box so the total volume of water to account for is larger than the volume of the over flow box alone. I think we're talking about the same thing, it will just vary depending on your overflow, pump, setup, etc.

+1 on check valves, added piece of mind and security, but I wouldn't count on a check valve to control how much water doesn't make it to your sump in the event of pump failure. Nothing lasts forever! :mad:

 

[CodyRVA]

It's going to be a freshwater setup I just bought a overflow kit and decided to ask some questions anyway I was wondering the same thing meaning if I make the highest baffle 21" leaving 3" from the top and fill the setup in this order. Fill display until water starts to get into the sump keep going until sump is about 3" from the top stop then turn pump on let it level out mark that level as max running it should never flood if I had a power failure right? And yes I'll have a wye check valve and siphon break from return line. So basically only water draining back would be from the overflow box. And that is already handled by the way I filled it right? What say you? I hope I didn't confused you

Your margin for error could put you in the safe zone, but measuring inches from the top of the tank to determine your over flow capacity is not the correct approach. You're essentially comparing inches to gallons.

Find your measurements, do some math, figure the amount of gallons, and turn that back into inch measurements in your sump. So, you won't be picking an arbitrary number like... 3 inches, you'll know exactly how many inches from the top of the sump you have to work with, because the space below that measurement is X number of gallons, and you need Y number of gallons available in the sump.

 

[Duane Fagan]

Your margin for error could put you in the safe zone, but measuring inches from the top of the tank to determine your over flow capacity is not the correct approach. You're essentially comparing inches to gallons.

Find your measurements, do some math, figure the amount of gallons, and turn that back into inch measurements in your sump. So, you won't be picking an arbitrary number like... 3 inches, you'll know exactly how many inches from the top of the sump you have to work with, because the space below that measurement is X number of gallons, and you need Y number of gallons available in the sump.

I hear what you're saying but I can't understand why if I fill the entire setup this way........ Fill tank until the water starts to overflow into the sump don't stop just keep letting the sump get filled until about 3" from the top (pump off of course) in actuality I just simulated a power failure situation where I would still have a 3" comfort zone. Then I turn pump on let it run for a while and level out mark that level as my max fill running line. If I was to cut the power shouldn't the back drain fill the sump to about 3" from the top again since no more water was added well just a little from the return line but I have that taken care of with siphon break and wye check valve? Please trust me I'm not an expert and just have questions to make me not stay up at night and still get the most out of my expensive sump. I see people with freshwater sumps (no skimmer) that use less than half of it like dude get a canister filter instead lol

 

[CodyRVA]

I hear what you're saying but I can't understand why if I fill the entire setup this way........ Fill tank until the water starts to overflow into the sump don't stop just keep letting the sump get filled until about 3" from the top (pump off of course) in actuality I just simulated a power failure situation where I would still have a 3" comfort zone. Then I turn pump on let it run for a while and level out mark that level as my max fill running line. If I was to cut the power shouldn't the back drain fill the sump to about 3" from the top again since no more water was added well just a little from the return line but I have that taken care of with siphon break and wye check valve? Please trust me I'm not an expert and just have questions to make me not stay up at night and still get the most out of my expensive sump. I see people with freshwater sumps (no skimmer) that use less than half of it like dude get a canister filter instead lol

Theoretically, yes. You're taking the manual approach vs the mathematical one, but I can't say for sure. You're relying on your check valves and siphon breaks to never fail. I measured the top of the water level, in the display tank, down to the point in which no matter what failed, check valve, siphon break, etc, there was no way water could get from display to sump. Basically, this point was below my return lines, so... from water level to bottom of return lines in the display tank. I took that width, height, and length of the display tank and found my gallon total. Then i added a few extra gallons for more safety and to accommodate for the plumbing volume. I then subtracted this volume from the total sump volume. This is truly how many gallons could potentially leave your display and enter your sump. So, again do the math on the sump tank, and make sure you accommodate for those gallons when placing your baffles.

You can do it manually, but IMO it's still guess work. If you measure from the bottom of the over flow box and lets say you account for 10 Gallons of excess water in your sump; what happens if your check valve fails, assuming the return lines sit under water, lower than the over flow, and the display drains more water from the return lines into your sump. Your method never accounts for this, you have 10G of space in your sump, but lets say your check valve just allowed 5 additional gallons.

 

[sil40sx]

Not sure what setup you're referencing in this method, but I know for my setup this would end in failure. My water level is higher than the bottom of the overflow box so the total volume of water to account for is............

Sorry for the confusion. It's basically similar with what you said on post #2, but mine was shorter and missing specific details. LOL

Let me try again and use my set-up as an example instead,.

Ok, so when I turn off my pump (simulating a power outage), theres only about 1.5 gallon of water that goes down to my sump. And that's from the overflow box, down to below the durso stand pipe only, not the whole water in the box.

Now if I don't have a check valve on my pump, I would guess there's going to be 8-10 gallons more that's going in my sump because my loc line/return nozzles are an inch below my waterline in my tank. That's why I agree with you that everything fails, because even if I have a check valve, I only fill my sump a little over half way to accommodate the back-flow in case the valve fails.

 

[Duane Fagan]

Theoretically, yes. You're taking the manual approach vs the mathematical one, but I can't say for sure. You're relying on your check valves and siphon breaks to never fail. I measured the top of the water level, in the display tank, down to the point in which no matter what failed, check valve, siphon break, etc, there was no way water could get from display to sump. Basically, this point was below my return lines, so... from water level to bottom of return lines in the display tank. I took that width, height, and length of the display tank and found my gallon total. Then i added a few extra gallons for more safety and to accommodate for the plumbing volume. I then subtracted this volume from the total sump volume. This is truly how many gallons could potentially leave your display and enter your sump. So, again do the math on the sump tank, and make sure you accommodate for those gallons when placing your baffles.

You can do it manually, but IMO it's still guess work. If you measure from the bottom of the over flow box and lets say you account for 10 Gallons of excess water in your sump; what happens if your check valve fails, assuming the return lines sit under water, lower than the over flow, and the display drains more water from the return lines into your sump. Your method never accounts for this, you have 10G of space in your sump, but lets say your check valve just allowed 5 additional gallons.

My bad I forgot to mention that the return line is above my overflow line and im using those loc line with the double nozzles so one will be at the water line causing the siphon break once the power is cut off so the return line will stop before the overflow box is emptied out into the sump? Please let me know if I'm wrong thanks

 

[Duane Fagan]

Sorry for the confusion. It's basically similar with what you said on post #2, but mine was shorter and missing specific details. LOL

Let me try again and use my set-up as an example instead,.

Ok, so when I turn off my pump (simulating a power outage), theres only about 1.5 gallon of water that goes down to my sump. And that's from the overflow box, down to below the durso stand pipe only, not the whole water in the box.

Now if I don't have a check valve on my pump, I would guess there's going to be 8-10 gallons more that's going in my sump because my loc line/return nozzles are an inch below my waterline in my tank. That's why I agree with you that everything fails, because even if I have a check valve, I only fill my sump a little over half way to accommodate the back-flow in case the valve fails.

Yeah I got all that that's why in my set up the check valve is pretty much just a last resort cause I'm using the loc line with the double nozzles one could be all the way to the bottom as long as the other nozzle is at or above water level it will cut the siphon (I haven't tested it being all the way to the bottom but you get what I'm saying)

 

[Duane Fagan]

Anyways I really appreciate everyone's input and opinions about this sump situation man everytime I think I've got it figured out something else pops up but the more I know the longer my wife will let me live (if I flood her hardwood I'm dead) Lolololololol