Sump, fuge, return line, skimmer :)

[BullSnapper]

How do people that have big tanks do water changes, for instance, in a 40 gallon do you siphon water our and pour it back in by holding the 5 gall tub over a PH? I use to use this method but it moved so much sand and created a bit of a stir in the tank that I think unsettled the fish.

Now, regarding Sump, Fuge, Skimmer etc, what are all these for? I have done lots of researching and some say its pointless some say its beneficial than I see someone with a tank that has a 20gal sump below it with loads of pvc pipes etc...can someone elaborate as I want to perfect my blueprint before I jump in and pour water in my new tank.

Pictures will come very soon

 

[Pappy]

Re wc: I siphon then use a small pump to pump new water in to dt. Sump and fuge IMO are def necessary with any decent setup! It is a place for additional biological filtration(live rock, additional sand bed,) also a place for a skimmer unless you don't mind the eye sore of a hob skimmer.

 

[swannyson7]

First off, welcome to R2R!! Now on to your questions...

A sump is a seperate tank below your display where water is sphoned down, filtered/heated, and then pumped back up to the display. The advantage of a sump is that you can keep your equipment out of sight, allowing you to maintain a more "natural" looking environment for your fish/corals. ANother advantage of a sump is that it increases your total water volume, which will help promote stable parameters. A refugium, or "fuge" is used to house macroalgae for nutrient export, undisturbed rock for bacterial filtration, sponge growth, etc. It's essentially just a natural approach to filtration. A skimmer is a wonderful piece of mecahnical filtration that will help remove waste within your water column. There are skimmers that hang on the back of your tank as well as models that require a sump. For larger tanks (75+ gallons), it's difficult to find a hang on skimmer that is powerful enough, but in sump versions are available to handle massive (1000+ gallon) systems.

For water changes, I have a fitting off of the PVC from my return pump that allows me to pump the water down a drain rather than back to the display. I then refill the sump with freshly mixed saltwater and in a matter of minutes, I have a 40-50g water change completed. Best of luck with your build and fire away with any other questions you may have!

 

[BullSnapper]

First off, welcome to R2R!! Now on to your questions...

A sump is a seperate tank below your display where water is sphoned down, filtered/heated, and then pumped back up to the display. The advantage of a sump is that you can keep your equipment out of sight, allowing you to maintain a more "natural" looking environment for your fish/corals. ANother advantage of a sump is that it increases your total water volume, which will help promote stable parameters. A refugium, or "fuge" is used to house macroalgae for nutrient export, undisturbed rock for bacterial filtration, sponge growth, etc. It's essentially just a natural approach to filtration. A skimmer is a wonderful piece of mecahnical filtration that will help remove waste within your water column. There are skimmers that hang on the back of your tank as well as models that require a sump. For larger tanks (75+ gallons), it's difficult to find a hang on skimmer that is powerful enough, but in sump versions are available to handle massive (1000+ gallon) systems.

For water changes, I have a fitting off of the PVC from my return pump that allows me to pump the water down a drain rather than back to the display. I then refill the sump with freshly mixed saltwater and in a matter of minutes, I have a 40-50g water change completed. Best of luck with your build and fire away with any other questions you may have!

Thanks for the welcome !!


How is it filtered? By having say a 4 pound LR in there? How much would it cost to get water to go from the Tank to the sump? and how would I get the water from the tank to the sump? I'd have to drill a hole? -_-


Im a bit confused because to me the Fuge sounds similar to the sump, no? Which Skimmer would be cheapest? I can't afford to spend TO much on this part of the tank sadly at the moment. What if I get a HOB skimmer and place it on the Sump as opposed to my DT?


So you can remove water without creating siphon by using the return PVC pipe to split off and you pour it into a bucket, than just pour the water straight into the sump? So this way, i won't need to lift a 5 gallon bucket over my tank and try to dump it on a PH and sadly see half the sand bed move because of this because all I will do is drop it in a sump that has nothing but a rock in it?


Also, hw do you get the water into the sump? because that 5 gallon bucket is heavy as hell. I'm trying to find an easy way for WC because the way I explained I was doing before caused to much sand bed movement into the water and was a bit too messy.

 

[Pappy]

You can put say one tank with 3 compartments separated by baffles(one section for skimmer where the overflow comes from tank, another section for return, and another section for a refugieum). The tank can be drilled and the water is gravity fed to the section down below which is skimmed and then put to return area back to tank above (I plumbed this overflow with a "t" to split to skimmer area and refugieum). The return pump that is recommended is a flow rate usually 7-10 times per hour for example 75 gallon tank should have a return pump rated for about 750 gph. Here is a pic of mine.

In the fuge I have a bunch of live rock that helps with filtration. Hope this helps.

 

[BarbH]

Hello and welcome to r2r :welcome: For water changes I siphon water out into a couple of buckets, I fill the buckets a little more than halfway so that it is not as much of a back breaking chore to carry the buckets to dump down the drain, or to put the water into my qt tank. For replacing water at the moment I either use a pump to pump water up to the display tank, or I use a pitcher that is dedicated to the tank only and transfer the water in that way. A little more time consuming and can be a bit of a nusicance but I don't get the same type of disturbance of my sand bed and I am not having to lift up heavy buckets of water to shoulder height to be able to pour the water in.

 

[Steelerfan747]

Hi. Welcome to R2R. I do it the old fashion way, I have someone else do it for me. No just kidding. I syphon out trying to clean the sand and rocks as I go along then I lift up 5g containers full of fresh natural sea water and pour them in 1g at a time. I hope to one day find an easier way.

 

[BullSnapper]

thanks for the welcome everyone !!

Are you guys using a Sump or any of the above as well or just a DT?

What is the drilling for? I'm hoping there is a way without drilling? How much would it cost equipment wise, (low budget as well) to get this done?

 

[Loki]

Hey there. Welcome to the forum.

I think we would have to know more about your system before we can tell you what stuff will cost.

I have read most of this thread (not all) so forgive me if I a question has already been answered.

A sump is where mechanical filtration and equipment goes. Skimmer, heater, return pump, etc.

A refugium (fuge) is where you keep biological filtration. Live rock, macro algae, and other stuff that will house good microorganisms.

 

[Loki]

In my opinion you need a fuge to be as big as possible. I have a 40 gallon fuge under my 120 gallon tank. I wish my fuge was bigger.

I also have a 40 gallon sump that houses my skimmer, return pump, and heater.

The drains from my display are fed via gravity to my fuge. Then from my fuge via gravity to my sump. I have a Danner Mag-drive 18 for my return pump that pushes water back up into my display through PVC.

My tanks are all drilled where needed. This allows for the PVC to be plumbed through the tank instead of over the side. It's a much cleaner look and eliminates water going per the side of the tank which could lead to a disaster.

You shouldn't skimp on your skimmer/equipment or you "life support" for your tank.

 

[Loki]

There is a way to get water to a sump/fuge without drilling. It's called an overflow. It is basically a syphon that pulls water from the display per the side of the tank and then down through a tube of some sort. I would advise to just drill the tank.

 

[BullSnapper]

In my opinion you need a fuge to be as big as possible. I have a 40 gallon fuge under my 120 gallon tank. I wish my fuge was bigger.

I also have a 40 gallon sump that houses my skimmer, return pump, and heater.

The drains from my display are fed via gravity to my fuge. Then from my fuge via gravity to my sump. I have a Danner Mag-drive 18 for my return pump that pushes water back up into my display through PVC.

My tanks are all drilled where needed. This allows for the PVC to be plumbed through the tank instead of over the side. It's a much cleaner look and eliminates water going per the side of the tank which could lead to a disaster.

You shouldn't skimp on your skimmer/equipment or you "life support" for your tank.

Well I am going with a 40 Breeder so i think that is as big as possible i can get until I move out.
So should I use a 20 gallon long or a 10 gallon for my sump and fuge combo assuming i can have a fuge and combo in 1 tank rather than 2 separate ones.

See, your return pump seems to be nearly $140, i can't afford to pay that right now, any cheaper ones? Also as far as drilling the tank, how do you seal the gaps between your PVC pipe and the glass so it doesn't leak? I don't want to drill because i don't have proper drills for that type of stuff.

 

[BullSnapper]

I have decided i can go ahead and do this, i found some return pumps for like $40and some skimmers I can get probably for below $100.

Now I have a 40 gal breeder, with a 10 gal and 20 gal Long tanks extra, not sure which to use and how to make one, i found hundreds of DIY but not sure where to find the glass for the traps etc.

Also, what size/strength return pump and skimmer do I need and are these the only equipment needed? I have never had one so I am completely new to this

 

[Loki]

Return pump: For a return for that size tank a mag drive 5 would work. You can find them used fairly cheap. A skimmer for a tank that size will still cost about $100.

Drilling: Drilling the tank is easy. All you need is a drill, diamond coated drill bit, and water. Do you have a LFS near you? If so they may service tanks, and if they service tanks they should be able to drill the holes for you.

Bulkheads: For the PVC and glass. Search for a "bulkhead" it's what we use in the hole we cut into the glass. They come in all different sizes. I would choose a one inch bulkhead for your tank. The hole in the glass will be larger than one inch but the bulkhead will fit one inch PVC (it can get confusing). You install a bulkhead and use it as a fitting for the PVC. For your size tank I would run 2 one inch drains and 1 one inch return.
This means I would drill three holes into your display tank each for a one inch bulkhead. Two of the holes will drain via gravity (no pump needed) to your sump, and the other hole will be where you pump the water back into with your return pump (like the mag 5).

 

[BullSnapper]

I did some looking around and found a few overflow boxes that can be used that cost about $40...instead of drilling I can do this correct? and they seem small, nothing big or nasty looking.

this being one of them
Reef Aquarium Filtration: Eshopps Overflow Boxes

what do you think of this?

 

[Loki]

Sump: I would use the bigger tank as a sump/fuge combo. You can get glass from a local glass company. I would tsar them the tank and say "I want X number pieces of glass X tall" they will measure your tank and cut the glass needed. It shouldn't cost much $20 maybe.

Baffles: You will need silicone and a caulk gun. You can get the caulk gun from lowes or home depot for $3-5. The silicone you can also get from there. In my tank I used the (I believe) GE brand silicone I (DO NOT USE THE ONE WITH MILDEW INHIBITOR) it should be about $5 for a tube.

 

[Loki]

Overflow boxes: I personally don't like them because they pull water over the edge of your tank. Once it's outside of you tank it is a lot easier to get on the floor.

I do know they have a purpose and a place. I just try to steer people in the direction of drilling.

With that said. You would want to get one that is able to handle the amount of water your return will push and then some just to be safe. So if you go the mag 5 route. You would want to get one the would handle 650-700 gph. It looks like the 800 would be a really safe bet. So that's $53. I don't think you could drill it (unless someone has all the tools and does it for free) for that price. Bulkheads will cost about $10 each x3.

 

[Loki]

Now for skimmer. Let's say you go with the 40 and 20 combo. You will probably have 40 gallons of water once it's all said and done. I always like to go +1 in the skimmer department. So find a brand you like and that has good reviews. Rev just started a thread about the best skimmer manufactures. That would be the perfect place to look . Find the skimmer they have rated for your tank size (40 gal) and go plus one. I would try to end up with a skimmer rated for 75-125 gallons.

I have 150 gallons of water and my skimmer is rated for 250 gallons.

Doing this may cost a little more than you want but I promise you will never regret getting the better skimmer.

 

[Steelerfan747]

I have a sump and skimmer. I an currently adding a fuge as well

 

[BullSnapper]

Sump: I would use the bigger tank as a sump/fuge combo. You can get glass from a local glass company. I would tsar them the tank and say "I want X number pieces of glass X tall" they will measure your tank and cut the glass needed. It shouldn't cost much $20 maybe.

Baffles: You will need silicone and a caulk gun. You can get the caulk gun from lowes or home depot for $3-5. The silicone you can also get from there. In my tank I used the (I believe) GE brand silicone I (DO NOT USE THE ONE WITH MILDEW INHIBITOR) it should be about $5 for a tube.

I read someone did it at lowes...do they have glass there that they can cut? Any specific type of glass I need?

Silicone is for attaching the baffles (that the glass dividers we create?)...and in the future I can tear it out or it's stuck as a sump forever?