Sump help

[Reeferburns]

Hi, so I’ve been keeping marine life for 10 years now and never once have done a sump and now is my time that I’m making the move. The thing I have questions with is flooding. So say my return pump fails one day will the sump then flood or is there a way to prevent that? Also say my hob overflow boxs stops working and doesn’t take in water and then my return pump will pump all my water to the aquarium and flood or is there a way to prevent that also? Also say the hob and the pump go out at the same time and create a siphon back into the sump? Lastly what if a pvc drain pipe becomes clogged and the return pump, pumps all water to the main tank? Like I said I’ve never done a sump and I just wanna know how to prevent those things from happening so I don’t flood my room thanks!

 

[Peach02]

OK so this is a few different questions ill answer them separately.

say my return pump fails one day will the sump then flood or is there a way to prevent that?

Yes, the sump should allow extra volume for the maximum volume that can drain into the sump, to drain into the sump. This is why the drain pipes are so high in the tank so less water can drain into the sump if the return pump fails.

Also say my hob overflow boxs stops working and doesn’t take in water and then my return pump will pump all my water to the aquarium and flood or is there a way to prevent that also?

adding extra height to your tank but I haven't seen someone do this, emergency drains tend to fix this but otherwise I'm not sure

Also say the hob and the pump go out at the same time and create a siphon back into the sump?

The sump should have enough extra volume to account for this

Lastly what if a pvc drain pipe becomes clogged and the return pump, pumps all water to the main tank?

Emergency drain should stop this, people often plump them so that if water comes out of them it will make a lot of noise / splashing so someone will hear it and fix the problem.

 

[JoshH]

Also say my hob overflow boxs stops working and doesn’t take in water and then my return pump will pump all my water to the aquarium and flood or is there a way to prevent that also?

adding extra height to your tank but I haven't seen someone do this, emergency drains tend to fix this but otherwise I'm not sure

So the real solution to this is making the return chamber in your sump as small as possible while still leaving room for your ATO and return pump. The return pump will only pump the water that is available to it within its section of the sump. If you have an open sump with no baffles then flooding would certainly be an issue but most sumps have a return section to house the return pump separately. The best combo is a small return section setup with a pump that will shut off once it starts running dry. Realistically depending on the size of your tank it could hold a few gallons before overflowing is a serious concern and I don't know of many return sections that are that large to begin with.

 

[Peach02]

So the real solution to this is making the return chamber in your sump as small as possible while still leaving room for your ATO and return pump. The return pump will only pump the water that is available to it within its section of the sump. If you have an open sump with no baffles then flooding would certainly be an issue but most sumps have a return section to house the return pump separately. The best combo is a small return section setup with a pump that will shut off once it starts running dry. Realistically depending on the size of your tank it could hold a few gallons before overflowing is a serious concern and I don't know of many return sections that are that large to begin with.

not quite as a smaller return chamber can mean you don't have room for dosing tubes or feed lines etc, plus if the return runs out of water it will run dry and break but as you said some claim to stop running if it runs dry.
an open sump and baffled sump has no difference in flooding, the water will still rise it just starts in the return chambe.

edit, I forgot that the water level in return chamber is often lower so that water can raise more before it hits the rest of the chambers so yes your right it can help reduce flooding potential.

 

[RocketEngineer]

I would add a few points to consider
1) by designing the sump to handle all the back flow, you don’t need to add failure points (i.e. check valve) that can fail.
2) emergency drains are more “complicated” but still very easy to do.
3) a failed drain is why you should never connect an RODI to an ATO.
3a) this is also a reason to have your ATO on a timer.

 

[Dom]

1. Oversize the sump to catch drainage from the display in the event of a power failure.
2. Use siphon break holes on the return in the tank.
3. Check valves.

I use all three. Nothing like redundancy.

 

[JoshH]

not quite as a smaller return chamber can mean you don't have room for dosing tubes or feed lines etc, plus if the return runs out of water it will run dry and break but as you said some claim to stop running if it runs dry.
an open sump and baffled sump has no difference in flooding, the water will still rise it just starts in the return chambe.

edit, I forgot that the water level in return chamber is often lower so that water can raise more before it hits the rest of the chambers so yes your right it can help reduce flooding potential.

I believe you may have missed my point.... I'm specifically referring to the situation where the siphon on the Hang On Back overflow quits (The situation I had quoted originally). And not a situation where the pump stops and backflows into the sump.

With a smaller return section the return pump will ONLY pump what water is in the return section back up to the tank and nothing else in the rest of the sump. If the return section is sized appropriately there will be no concern about the display overflowing as it will only raise the Display water height slightly. Purchasing a pump with a float switch built in to shut itself off when the water level in the return section drops to a certain level would prevent any issue of the pump running dry (Reef Octopus Varios line comes with them). You can also get separate sensors and use a controller to shut the pump off in the event the water level drops too low.

A sump with no baffles will absolutely be different as if the sump has no baffles atall and the overflow quits. The pump will pump the entire volume of water in the sump up to the Display until the inlet of the pump is reached. This could be 10,20,30 gallons of water which would definitely overflow the display.

 

[Peach02]

I believe you may have missed my point.... I'm specifically referring to the situation where the siphon on the Hang On Back overflow quits (The situation I had quoted originally). And not a situation where the pump stops and backflows into the sump.

With a smaller return section the return pump will ONLY pump what water is in the return section back up to the tank and nothing else in the rest of the sump. If the return section is sized appropriately there will be no concern about the display overflowing as it will only raise the Display water height slightly. Purchasing a pump with a float switch built in to shut itself off when the water level in the return section drops to a certain level would prevent any issue of the pump running dry (Reef Octopus Varios line comes with them). You can also get separate sensors and use a controller to shut the pump off in the event the water level drops too low.

A sump with no baffles will absolutely be different as if the sump has no baffles atall and the overflow quits. The pump will pump the entire volume of water in the sump up to the Display until the inlet of the pump is reached. This could be 10,20,30 gallons of water which would definitely overflow the display.

Yep I definitely missed your point sorry... its been a long week lol

 

[JoshH]

Yep I definitely missed your point sorry... its been a long week lol

Lol no need for apologies, I probably should have been more descriptive in my OP, long week for me too ;Bored