SUMP & PLUMBING DESIGN.. Need Critique!

[Jtfortune3]

The overflow from your refugium should be directed straight to your return chamber. This way the critters from refugium don't get filtered by socks or skimmed out, so they can be beneficial to MT.

The water level in your skimmer chamber could rise and drop and could affect your skimmer effectiveness; for example if you stop the return pump. Unless you plan on using recirculating skimmer with it's own feed pump.

The way I have the baffles set up doesn’t allow the third chamber water level to drop. I know the diagram looks that way but it shouldn’t drop. Allowing only the last small chamber to fluctuate making the ATO more precise. Last chamber is 9” deep

 

[Erick Armanii]

Of course you responded now lol..
In my opinion I would use the dirty water.. looking at several different professionally build sumps, the refugium section flows over to the protein skimmer, then over a bubble trap and then into the return pumps.. So like I was saying before drill the tanks and bulk head..

I understand the redundancy of the 2 pumps, but your turnover would be handled in the display tank via power heads for quite a while without much of a concern of filtering thru the sump. (Unless you take really long vacations lol)

The bubble trap should be high enough that the return pumps are fully submerged and low enough to set the proper skimmer height (average 7-9”)

I’ll check back in tomorrow

 

[Jtfortune3]

So much to unpack here, where to start?.... I agree that the skimmer is in the wrong place, if you're able to lower the water level in the return section and allow the bubble trap baffle create a permanent water level in the skimmer section you'll be ok. The only concern I have is, will the water level in the return section be high enough that it won't suck air and push it into the display tank.

Another concern is using the return pumps to sub feed all the other stuff in the sump, which means any time you adjust the ball valves (more on that later) you will be changing the amount of water being sent to the display, which will cause all kinds of gurgling from the overflows that are draining back into the sump. I would recommend dedicating one of the 2 return pumps for return, and the other for feeding the reactors and fuge. either that of use the 2 return pumps solely for return and add a dedicated pump for the reactors and fuge.

Ball valves are great for starting and stopping flow, but isn't ideal for regulating flow, although many people use them in that manner, and is fine for broad adjustments, but fine tuning is virtually impossible. I say that, so that you can think on it and consider swapping some ball valves for gate valves.

Lastly is regulating flow through the drain. You're going to want to restrict the flow into the sump so that you can find the sweet spot in order to silence the drain. But the way you have both drains T'ing together becomes a problem because if something gets stuck in the drain line at the gate valve your going to over flow the tank.

Although the weir design on that particular tank will make it hard to stop the gurgling, I would recommend removing the T and allow both drains drop independently. I would recommend reading up on 2 different styles of drain systems, "Herbie" and "Bean Animal" designs. that way you can educate yourself and maybe get some ideas for the best way to tackle that.

A lot to consider, but it's better to address things now and not after you destroy your carpet/hardwood floor etc.

Thanks so much for this information! This has helped my confusion so much. I’m glad you pointed about about the manifold valves changing flow in the MT. I’m considering running three pumps now. (2 for returns. 1 for fuge and accessories.)

 

[Jtfortune3]

Here is my updated design after taking everyone’s considerations! I still haven’t strategically placed unions and ball valves with unions in this diagram. Where would they be needed most in updated design? Thanks everyone for your inputs! You have saved me lots of time, money, and headaches!

 

[Oropher]

1.) Well I can’t decide if I want to use clean water from return pumps to feed the external refuge. Or use dirty water from over flows to go straight into the fuge. A macro algae fuge would to absorb the phosphates and other things the skimmer didn’t absorb so I’m not sure what to do. Clean or dirty water fuge?

2.) 2 return pumps is simply for if one were to fail the other would still turn over the tank.Pumps always fail while on vacation and your system could crash with 0% turnover.

3.) yes I have a bubble trap between the skimmer and the return.

Use dirty water from MT to Refugium. And the drain shouldn't be too deep into refugium. I'd put an elbow near the water level so inflow to refugium is travel across refugium chamber surface, and slowly. This way the bottom of refugium could have a very slow water movement for denitrification brick media.

 

[Oropher]

Here is my updated design after taking everyone’s considerations! I still haven’t strategically placed unions and ball valves with unions in this diagram. Where would they be needed most in updated design? Thanks everyone for your inputs! You have saved me lots of time, money, and headaches!

This way, your bio media chamber would get lots of water flow. It would only promote aerobic bacteria for processing ammonia and nitrite. I think your low flow chamber should be in the refugium then. ... just a thought.

 

[Erick Armanii]

Looks good to me! When planning unions I think of 2 things;
1.) If I move how am I going to move this tank and sump without breaking anything and with the least amount of headaches?
2.) if something needs cleaning, breaks, or fails can I do so?

Make sure when buying your plumbing be sure to buy extra of everything.. you can return whatever you don’t use, but delay the whole thing when having to goto the store or order online..

 

[Erick Armanii]

Might be hard to see but the yellow is where I would put them.. each of the bulk heads, against any long section of pipe, and around T fittings..

Also one of the big bonus of unions you can use them to help align your plumbing, so anywhere you may need to twist or turn a section of pipe would be helpful too!

 

[Erick Armanii]

Might be hard to see but the yellow is where I would put them.. each of the bulk heads, against any long section of pipe, and around T fittings..

Also one of the big bonus of unions you can use them to help align your plumbing, so anywhere you may need to twist or turn a section of pipe would be helpful too!

 

[Jtfortune3]

Thanks so much! Would I need gate valves on returns if I plan on using dc return pumps with electronic flow controller?

 

[Erick Armanii]

Thanks so much! Would I need gate valves on returns if I plan on using dc return pumps with electronic flow controller?

I would use them regardless.. it gives you a chance to dial in the amount of flow so you can have a quite drain. Without one you wouldn’t be able to get the right flow and hear a gurgling sound

 

[Osric]

Here is my updated design after taking everyone’s considerations! I still haven’t strategically placed unions and ball valves with unions in this diagram. Where would they be needed most in updated design? Thanks everyone for your inputs! You have saved me lots of time, money, and headaches!

If your full siphon drain clogs, your system will overflow.

In my opinion, the easiest fix is to ditch one of the return pumps and build a beananimal return with the primary siphon where it is, the secondary where it is, and the right return as the emergency.

If you don’t like that fix, another alternative would be to remove the check valve on on of your return pumps, and use a water level sensor in the top of the tank to shut that pump off when the water is about to overflow. Then the return plumbing itself becomes the emergency drain as long as your float valve is still working. If you go this way I’d test the setup every few months.

 

[Osric]

Another overflow condition can occur because of your refugium. If its drain back to the sump clogs, the fuge pump will pump significant water volume onto the floor.

I don’t see an easy way to solve that one.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Here is my updated design after taking everyone’s considerations! I still haven’t strategically placed unions and ball valves with unions in this diagram. Where would they be needed most in updated design? Thanks everyone for your inputs! You have saved me lots of time, money, and headaches!

I like it, a big improvement to say the least. Now that you have everything separated it lowers the risk of a flood. Outside of what others recommend about the number of unions to use, and what valves that's all preference and won't increase/decrease the risk of flooding.

The only 2 things I would say is a must is a gate valve on the 2 drains to fine tune, and try to use 45° turns instead of 90° if at all possible, the goal is to avoid horizontal runs on a line that uses gravity to flow.

To address some concerns that others have pointed out about clogged fuge drain is to either add a second drain line higher to act as an emergency or if theres a way to allow the fuge to "waterfall" into the sump...

But with your second drawing, I would be able to sleep well at night. Noise may be a concern, but the first tanks I kept were noisy and didn't mind it all... but when reading bean animals design (15 years ago) I tried it out, and now is my go to failsafe silent return design.

 

[Jtfortune3]

If your full siphon drain clogs, your system will overflow.

In my opinion, the easiest fix is to ditch one of the return pumps and build a beananimal return with the primary siphon where it is, the secondary where it is, and the right return as the emergency.

If you don’t like that fix, another alternative would be to remove the check valve on on of your return pumps, and use a water level sensor in the top of the tank to shut that pump off when the water is about to overflow. Then the return plumbing itself becomes the emergency drain as long as your float valve is still working. If you go this way I’d test the setup every few months.

The tank comes pre drilled with drains as two 1” and two returns at 3/4” could I still get away with a bean animal setup if the emergency is 3/4” pipe?

 

[Jtfortune3]

Another overflow condition can occur because of your refugium. If its drain back to the sump clogs, the fuge pump will pump significant water volume onto the floor.

I don’t see an easy way to solve that one.

I plan to add multiple pipes to return It back to the sump. One being full siphon and a
Two emergency waterfall type if the main were to get clogged. It will be a low flow fuge.

 

[Erick Armanii]

The tank comes pre drilled with drains as two 1” and two returns at 3/4” could I still get away with a bean animal setup if the emergency is 3/4” pipe?

That was my dilemma too! (Like I said I have the same tank) I did upgrade the return line to 1”

 

[Jtfortune3]

That was my dilemma too! (Like I said I have the same tank) I did upgrade the return line to 1”

Did you drill new holes? or did you have main drain as 1” and two backup drains as 3/4” with your return being the 1”?

 

[Erick Armanii]

Did you drill new holes? or did you have main drain as 1” and two backup drains as 3/4” with your return being the 1”?

Bro.... We have the same tank lol!!
AQUEON drilled the holes the same size so that you can choose which hole you use for the drain and which for the return..

Learn from my lesson lol..
Don’t buy a 3/4” bulk head because it won’t sit in the predrilled holes lol.. it will leak lol.. I was under the tank like what the heck! Why is this happening.. ordered another set (I assumed the amazon one was trash so I ordered a new set from Brs)
Brs took a week to ship delay because of a snow storm. Opened the box all excited to find out it’s the SAME ONE FROM AMAZON! So I ordered 1” bulk heads and added some reducers. Since the bulkheads provide from AQUEON are barbed for flexible tube. you need to buy new bulk heads if your going to hard plumb and they have to be 1”

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

How much work are you willing to put into it? Last night, I saw a thread where a guy removed those overflow weir and plugged the holes on the bottom and drilled new holes toadd a ghost overflow.

Here's his progress