Sump Problem: Lower water level or reduce flow?

[JustinFromAL]

I'm setting up a new tank and I have a problem with water flowing from a higher water volume chamber in my sump to a lower volume chamber and I'm hoping you guys can help.

Here are the details....

Display Tank:
110g (60 x 18 x 23)
Coast to Coast overflow with Beananimal Drains (working flawlessly)

Sump Tank:
40L (48x12x16)
Three Chambers, from left to right: Discharge, Skimmer, Return.



The Problem:

I have zero noise from my overflow, but a waterfall going from the discharge chamber to the lower skimmer chamber.

Here's a video of the issue:
[video=youtube;pCmcaoG0xsQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCmcaoG0xsQ[/video]

The reason for the differing water levels is that my skimmer (will be in the center chamber) requires a specific depth, and a stand isn't an option due to overhead clearance. I made the water level in the discharge area higher so that I could hopefully store some extra live rock in there and form a sort of refugium. Not for nutrient export, but for a pod sanctuary, as I hope to have a mandarin or two down the road.

The way I see it is I have two options:

Option A: Reduce the level of the discharge chamber to the level of the skimmer and return chambers. The negative to this is that I loose some volume and space for more live rock. I know this would work, but I'm wondering if option B is actually better.....

Option B: Lower the volume of water passing through the sump. At the given head height my pump is moving about 700GPH. My skimmer can only process 270GPH. Should I just use a ball valve to slow down the rate of flow through my sump enough that the waterfall stops? I have two nice tunze power heads, so I'm not worried about water movement in the tank itself. So I guess the root question is moving 700GPH through the sump even necessary?


Thanks in advance for your time! :thumb:

 

[Reefing Madness]

Put the skimmer in the first section, then you can raise the skimmer in that chamber to where its needed, and or lower the water a bit so thw water fall goes away. If your going to have Macro Algae in the same chamber as the skimmer, the skimmer will chew up a few pods and some mac algae also.

No, you don't need to have 700gph through your sump, 500gph would suffice.

 

[Eric B]

I would slow the flow down through the sump as indicated above by Reefing Madness and on your next sump you will want the bubble trap right before the return pump section and not where the water enters the sump. That would have eliminated your water fall all together and would have taken out all bubbles just before water flowed into return section and into tank. You might end up with some micro bubbles from time to time with it set up the way you have it from the waterfall and also the skimmer. Good luck!

 

[JustinFromAL]

Thanks guys!

Reefing Madness, that isn't an option. The skimmer needs a specific water height (in the center chamber), it can't be raised because it's very tall and I wouldn't be able to get the collection cup out if I put it on a stand.

Eric B, The bubble trap was a effort by me to reduce the waterfall, I knew it wouldn't really help in bubble reduction. I don't think I need a bubble trap, my beananimal overflow makes no bubbles and my skimmer has a noise reduction piping that essentially acts as a mini bubble trap.

 

[jservedio]

Is there any reason for that first chamber at all? Why not just remove that baffle all together and have one big first chamber so you only have a skimmer chamber and return chamber. If there is no reason for it and it isn't adding significant water volume to the tank - eliminate it. Since you are running a full siphon, you have no bubbles and it doesn't need to be covered, so there is no reason for a dedicated drain chamber.

Edit: If you want LR in there and want it separated from the skimmer chamber, you don't need a full wall - you can create a half wall just to keep it in place or use egg crate or a perforated wall that water can flow through.

 

[rworegon]

I don't think you will have much success growing pods in the first chamber no matter if there is rock and macro in there or not. Too much flow. Even at 500 gph. I would set up a separate refugium and feed it through a manifold off your return pump. That would reduce the water flow through your sump. Probably not enough to match your skimmer though. Really putting more flow through your sump than your skimmer can handle is kind of counterproductive anyway. Water movement in the display is handled by your powerheads. The sump is primarily for added volume and filtration.

 

[AZDesertRat]

My sump chambers and baffles are similar to yours but I plumbed my overflow to the center/skimmer chamber. The other chamber is my refugium, about the same height as your far left chamber which I feed via a 1"x1/2" tee and ball valve from the overflow. I can adjust the flow going to the refugium with the ball valve while the bulk of the flow goes to the center/skimmer section and I don't get the waterfall sound from the refugium falling in to the center section.

 

[JustinFromAL]

jservido, good point. If I lower the water level I will probably do away with that baffle and replace it with a low wall/egg crate. Thanks

rworegon, I wish I could do a separate fuge, but I'm just out of room. And in regards to your/AzDesertRat's suggestion to use a manifold/ball to feed a separate fuge, from what I understand that isn't an option with a BeanAnimal overflow design. Any manipulation to the siphon causes the solution not to work.

Thanks for the feedback guys, I'm finally starting to get an idea of what does and doesn't work...so much trial and error no matter how much you read!

 

[rworegon]

The manifold isn't on the overflow. It would be on the return. You control how much flow goes where with ball valves. I have a Eheim 1262 feeding my fuge, a 25 watt UV and my return, through a manifold. The overflow goes unrestricted into my filter sock in the first chamber of my sump. The Skimmer is in the middle section and the return pump is in the third. I plumbed a separate refugium, pretty ghetto but it works, using a plastic tub sitting on bricks, with the overflow from that plumbed straight into the return section so the fuge water bypasses the skimmer. Gives pods a better chance of making it to the display.

 

[JustinFromAL]

Ahh, I misunderstood what you said. That does make sense, and I really like how you've got that setup. I'm afraid I might have already "plumbed myself into a corner" though. I really wish I had the room for a separate refugium, but this is a living room tank and I have to keep everything under the tank and in a cabinet next to it that is already holding my ro/di reservior, dosing pumps, and controller.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Actually my refugium is fed from my overflow. I use a Stockman standpipe as I feel the BeanAnimal and other styles complicate a very simple siphon when its not warranted. In 9+ years of use mysingle 1" Stockman has never been a problem and its 1" size will take the full flow of a Water Blaster HY-5000 pump at 4 feet of head. The key to a good overflow is the proper mix of water and air and once that is done they flow like crazy with little to no noise and no flushing effect.

 

[Genesis Corals]

You only need as much flow as your skimmer can handle. Try slowing it down and see if that helps.