Sump return plumping?

[Shanasman450]

I'm having some trouble figuring out how I could do a soft return line from a sump. I'm planning on switching from a canister to a 10g sump for a cleaner look and easier maintenance. The problem is, the tank is already up and running and I don't have a viable way to move our livestock anywhere to drain it, so I have to go the hob route. Most threads and videos I've seen mostly talk about the equipment itself and leaving out plumbing, or talk about plumbing from the standpoint of having a drilled tank, so I'm having trouble finding info on hang on/over return setups.

My question is, assuming you had a tank running and drilling isn't feasible, and assuming you wanted a clean look but also wanted to keep costs down, how would you go about setting up a return line?

 

[kados]

Found this in YouTube that may help:

 

[KrisReef]

Submersible, flex hose, u-shaped (hang over the back) plastic return pipe. Just make certain the hose is secure and not going to get knocked off the side of the aquarium when the pump kicks off and on, or the cat jumps on top of the tank, etc.

Didn't watch the video, picture made me want to punch-a-face with a irrational vengence.

Thanks Chuck!

 

[Shanasman450]

Found this in YouTube that may help:

I've seen that video. It's pretty much a setup guide for setting up the eshopps pf-300. Didn't talk about return lines. Thanks though

 

[MoshJosh]

I used black pond tubing for my return with a little PVC U shape to go over the edge. I also used black pond tubing for my overflow, but the kind with inner support wire thing (platic not metal wire). Companies also make return jets specifically for tanks that arent drilled:

Return Jet

The CPR Return jet offers a fast and convenient solution for plumbing return lines up and over the rim of the aquarium. This is a great option when drilling the glass for a bulkhead is not practical or possible. The U-shape of the return jet allows the assembly to simply hang right on the rim...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I heated up the pond tubing, fit it over the pump outlet and then zip tied it for extra security (plastic tube clamp would be better) then did the same for my PVC U (but same thing applies to the premade return jets).

 

[Shanasman450]

Submersible, flex hose, u-shaped (hang over the back) plastic return pipe. Just make certain the hose is secure and not going to get knocked off the side of the aquarium when the pump kicks off and on, or the cat jumps on top of the tank, etc.

Didn't watch the video, picture made me want to punch-a-face with a irrational vengence.

Thanks Chuck!

All the u-shapped plastic hob pipes have pretty bad reviews that claim they're very cheaply made. Besides that, non of them are compatible with loc-line fittings, which I was hoping to use. I should have included this in my original post, my bad. Again, thanks for the reply anyway.

 

[TokenReefer]

I use the eshoppes pf 300 hob overflow and no complaints so far. Just seems to work like magic lol

 

[KrisReef]

All the u-shapped plastic hob pipes have pretty bad reviews that claim they're very cheaply made. Besides that, non of them are compatible with loc-line fittings, which I was hoping to use. I should have included this in my original post, my bad. Again, thanks for the reply anyway.

No problem. I just had a discussion with my wife this morning about communication and your second post is much better for discussion, sharing info.

With threaded PVC fittings it is fairly simple to construct a U shaped return that can have a threaded loc line on the end. Use a flex pipe hose barb at the other end connect return to flex hose, and flex hose to barb on the sump pump! Edit, It might be "ugly" but it can work.

 

[Shanasman450]

I used black pond tubing for my return with a little PVC U shape to go over the edge. I also used black pond tubing for my overflow, but the kind with inner support wire thing (platic not metal wire). Companies also make return jets specifically for tanks that arent drilled:

Return Jet

The CPR Return jet offers a fast and convenient solution for plumbing return lines up and over the rim of the aquarium. This is a great option when drilling the glass for a bulkhead is not practical or possible. The U-shape of the return jet allows the assembly to simply hang right on the rim...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I heated up the pond tubing, fit it over the pump outlet and then zip tied it for extra security (plastic tube clamp would be better) then did the same for my PVC U (but some thing applies to the premade return jets).

I was a bit worried about that cpr plastic u after reading the reviews. Again, my fault for not mentioning that before. I mean, for $8 I can certainly try it. If it leaks, oh well.

 

[MoshJosh]

All the u-shapped plastic hob pipes have pretty bad reviews that claim they're very cheaply made. Besides that, non of them are compatible with loc-line fittings, which I was hoping to use. I should have included this in my original post, my bad. Again, thanks for the reply anyway.

Then your best bet is probably to make your own. If you want a clean look I would order black PVC pipe and fitting online. Then just get a loc-line adapter from BRS (or wherever). If you wanted to be super cool you could heat up and bend PVC to make your own U shape, then add a 90 degree elbow + the loc-line adapter:

Male NPT Connector

Loc-Line flexible modular hose offers endless plumbing configurations and is useful for unique plumbing designs. Loc- Line Modular plumbing is most commonly used on return lines and closed loops where it is important to direct the water flow in a particular direction. For 1/2" Loc-Line NPT...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

If you aren't familiar with bending PVC (I'm not great at it) check out this vid at 5 minute mark. . . its for freshwater but the bending is thats important.

 

[Shanasman450]

No problem. I just had a discussion with my wife this morning about communication and your second post is much better for discussion, sharing info.

With threaded PVC fittings it is fairly simple to construct a U shaped return that can have a threaded loc line on the end. Use a flex pipe hose barb at the other end connect return to flex hose, and flex hose to barb on the sump pump! Edit, It might be "ugly" but it can work.

There's an idea. I was so focused on avoiding pvc I didn't think about using it for that. Do you think thread sealing tape would be enough to seal a threaded piece or would something like pvc cement be necessary?

 

[Shanasman450]

If you wanted to be super cool you could heat up and bend PVC to make your own U shape, then add a 90 degree elbow + the loc-line adapter

I like that idea a lot actually. Thank you.

 

[xabo]

Reef Aquarium Return Line Plumbing - A How-to Guide

Returns pump water up to your display tank from the sump. Covers system turnover & flow, choosing the right pump, and proactive safety measures

gmacreef.com

 

[KrisReef]

You don't need tape or sealant, technically, but silicone sealant has worked best for me in the past. PVC tends to bind as it tightends, and a little tape can help plug up the thread leaks. I've even used liquid teflon sealers that are messy but helpful. Overtighting and splitting of PVC is more of a problem than undertightening/leaks in my experience. I hate plumbing as I struggle to get it just tight enough and not too tight. Same issue with my kitchen sink, etc. I know how to do it I just struggle to hit the sweet spot on the finishes/ and so they leak because I am not gifted with plumbing finesse.
I've repiped a few homes sweating copper, and helped the neighbors replace home pressure gages, water heaters, toilets and sinks but I avoid it if I can. "King of Leaks!" Cheap plumbing repairs but so expensive when an over tightened PVC female pipe splits open at the threads and starts to leak because I cranked down on the male pipe to "make sure it didn't leak" at the threads.

It's not that hard, for other people.

 

[Shanasman450]

You don't need tape or sealant, technically, but silicone sealant has worked best for me in the past. PVC tends to bind as it tightends, and a little tape can help plug up the thread leaks. I've even used liquid teflon sealers that are messy but helpful. Overtighting and splitting of PVC is more of a problem than undertightening/leaks in my experience. I hate plumbing as I struggle to get it just tight enough and not too tight. Same issue with my kitchen sink, etc. I know how to do it I just struggle to hit the sweet spot on the finishes/ and so they leak because I am not gifted with plumbing finesse.
I've repiped a few homes sweating copper, and helped the neighbors replace home pressure gages, water heaters, toilets and sinks but I avoid it if I can. "King of Leaks!" Cheap plumbing repairs but so expensive when an over tightened PVC female pipe splits open at the threads and starts to leak because I cranked down on the male pipe to "make sure it didn't leak" at the threads.

It's not that hard, for other people.

Lol as an overtightener myself, I completely understand. Thanks for the info, it's helped a lot.

 

[Shanasman450]

It's been several months now, and I've had some time to reflect since posting this thread. I've decided on hard plumbing now that I have everything in place and ready to connect. I'm looking at ordering some red schedule 40 from brs along with all the fittings I plan to use. The only thing left that I'm not quite sure on is how to size my return side.

Here's the rundown, I ended up with the eshopps pf-300 for my overflow and a jebao dcw-3500. I oversized the return pump so that I have the option to run other equipment off of it. I have no space under my tank as the stand it came with has a divider down the middle, so I'm running my sump offset. I'd have to run roughly 48 inches horizontally then roughly 37 inches vertically from return pump to the tank and I'm shooting for a max of 300gph as that's what my overflow is rated for. All that being said, I was thinking 1 inch id should be fine, but I don't want to purchase everything and find out I have to redo half of it because I didn't ask here first.

 

[KrisReef]

#1 FlexPVC®.com Water Flow Charts Based on Pipe Size (GPM/GPH) ie, How much water can flow through Sch 40 Pvc Pipe Size 1/2" 3/4" 1" 1.5" 2" 2.5" 3" 4" 6"

Water Flow Volume for a given pipe size based on charts, tables, formula, nomograph, & experience.

flexpvc.com

The chart on the site claims you can run 960gpm through 1” pipe, I think your use of 1” pipe will be fine. What size pipe does the pump have on the outlet side?

Also, if you put a flexible hose1” on the return you can test the pump output at 4’ (bench test) and see how long it takes to drain a 5 gallon bucket, and calculate your flow at head.

 

[Shanasman450]

#1 FlexPVC®.com Water Flow Charts Based on Pipe Size (GPM/GPH) ie, How much water can flow through Sch 40 Pvc Pipe Size 1/2" 3/4" 1" 1.5" 2" 2.5" 3" 4" 6"

Water Flow Volume for a given pipe size based on charts, tables, formula, nomograph, & experience.

flexpvc.com

The chart on the site claims you can run 960gpm through 1” pipe, I think your use of 1” pipe will be fine. What size pipe does the pump have on the outlet side?

Also, if you put a flexible hose1” on the return you can test the pump output at 4’ (bench test) and see how long it takes to drain a 5 gallon bucket, and calculate your flow at head.

I believe 1". I guess I should be asking a different question then. Is there any harm in oversizing return plumbing a bit? Like 1" for 300gph as in my case. If not I'm cool with running 1"

 

[KrisReef]

The “harm” that I have heard about is from running to small pipe and not being able to get enough water through it.
The “harm” You May see in larger pipe is that it requires more water to fill when running. When it shuts off the extra volume will need extra space in the sump for safe storage.
I think folks sometimes recommend larger pipe to reduce friction resistant but @300 gph I don’t think 1” is going to suffer restrictions, nor would 1.25” cause problems that I can think of?

 

[Shanasman450]

The “harm” that I have heard about is from running to small pipe and not being able to get enough water through it.
The “harm” You May see in larger pipe is that it requires more water to fill when running. When it shuts off the extra volume will need extra space in the sump for safe storage.
I think folks sometimes recommend larger pipe to reduce friction resistant but @300 gph I don’t think 1” is going to suffer restrictions, nor would 1.25” cause problems that I can think of?

I didn't think there would be, but I've been bitten by not asking questions that I should've cause I thought I knew the answer already. I appreciate the input