Sump Returns

[Kayotic5011]

Haha my biggest issue is that the skimmer has a 12.4 x 10 inch footprint!

dang yea thats a big foot print, but i believe with the correct concept you could pull it off with beauty.

 

[LbulletM]

dang yea thats a big foot print, but i believe with the correct concept you could pull it off with beauty.

Haha yeaaaaa, it's a Reef Octopus 202-S that I bought for my eventual 150g, but I'm tired of fighting N&P in the 29, so time to unbox it! I think I can do either a 29g or a 20L for a sump.

Some quick Excel layouts from work yesterday. Grey outlines are measurements. Red outlines are calculated volume of each section (in^3 converted to gallons). Blue outlines are total volume in sump. Cells are 0.5" square. Seems the aqueon tanks are actually a little larger than 30x12, so I will gain a little bit of room that allows for negligible offsets from baffle width.

For a 29g sump:

For a 20L sump:

And, of course, since they both have the same footprint, the top down looks the same:

 

[Kayotic5011]

Awesome layout, I built a 20L with 2 baffles per side and used it for my 40 gallon breeder I had set up, then I upgraded to my 120 gal and used that 40 breeder for the refugium I showed above....Its really been a night and day change setting up this new refugium with 3 baffles per side and with proper compartments for my equipment.....my 20L was more of a sump or combo of both rather than a refugium....Ill have to up load a pic of it when I get out of work today. The filter in my 20L build wasnt the best because it was constantly in the water and that defeats the purpose of the filtration.....what kind of filtration to you run?

 

[TinyChocobo]

It depends on how you design the sump. The one pictured above has all full water height sections other than the return, so there isn't anywhere for a whole lot of backflow to go beyond that one section. I wouldn't personally design a sump that way, though YMMV. Beyond that, as long as you have adequate backflow space, regardless of which compartment, you will be good. I would not personally rely on a check valve - been there, done that. They almost always fail.

I put a check valve in my return line yesterday and then tested it. It stopped the huge rush of water in the sump [that could conceivably suck up a fish down into the pump] but it didn't stop the flow 100% - the water in the sump still creeped up slowly.

The pump is on a 1500 VA battery back up so if the power goes out I should be OK for an hour or two - enough time for me to get the generator out and fired up if I have to. That said I do need to test if the amount of water that will siphon back to the sump will overflow the sump - I don't think it will - although it may be pretty full .

 

[ca1ore]

I put a check valve in my return line yesterday and then tested it. It stopped the huge rush of water in the sump [that could conceivably suck up a fish down into the pump] but it didn't stop the flow 100% - the water in the sump still creeped up slowly.

Correct, that is what they do. You have to make sure that your sump can hold all the drain-down water under the assumption that the check valve fails. BTW, there is nothing inherently problematic about the initial rush of water. it actually can help to dislodge any crud that has built up in the pump volute chamber. I 'backflush' mine pretty regularly. Just don't try to restart the pump until that initial rush subsides - you can quite easily burn it out.

 

[TinyChocobo]

Correct, that is what they do. You have to make sure that your sump can hold all the drain-down water under the assumption that the check valve fails. BTW, there is nothing inherently problematic about the initial rush of water. it actually can help to dislodge any crud that has built up in the pump volute chamber. I 'backflush' mine pretty regularly. Just don't try to restart the pump until that initial rush subsides - you can quite easily burn it out.

I just reached up and pulled the return up above the water level to stop the rush, started the pump, and then put it back down.

That said the tank is very new - not much build up of anything anywhere just yet.

 

[LbulletM]

Awesome layout, I built a 20L with 2 baffles per side and used it for my 40 gallon breeder I had set up, then I upgraded to my 120 gal and used that 40 breeder for the refugium I showed above....Its really been a night and day change setting up this new refugium with 3 baffles per side and with proper compartments for my equipment.....my 20L was more of a sump or combo of both rather than a refugium....Ill have to up load a pic of it when I get out of work today. The filter in my 20L build wasnt the best because it was constantly in the water and that defeats the purpose of the filtration.....what kind of filtration to you run?

Thanks!

Right now I just have an AC110 HOB filter with an InTank media tray. I run a filter pad, bag of ChemiPure Blue, and have a small HOB skimmer in there (Tunze 9001). I also put an unmeasured amount of vodka in my top off water whenever I refill the reservoir.

 

[Kayotic5011]

Thanks!

Right now I just have an AC110 HOB filter with an InTank media tray. I run a filter pad, bag of ChemiPure Blue, and have a small HOB skimmer in there (Tunze 9001). I also put an unmeasured amount of vodka in my top off water whenever I refill the reservoir.

why the vodka?...."in russia vodka swim in fish" hahahaha

 

[LbulletM]

why the vodka?...."in russia vodka swim in fish" hahahaha

Woops, I meant vinegar. But in either case, carbon feed for denitrifying bacteria.

 

[Kayotic5011]

lol word, how much do you usually add and to what volume of water?

 

[LbulletM]

lol word, how much do you usually add and to what volume of water?

I'm pretty bad about it. When I was dosing daily using a syringe I was pretty exact, but since you can't really OD on it, I just add a few seconds of vinegar before filling up my 5 gallon bucket top-off reservoir haha. If I see too much white build up on the walls, I may reduce my seconds. No change, I may add more seconds.

......this lack of precision may be why I need to lean on a sump

 

[Kayotic5011]

I think your right. Vinegar is an acid, so to much will lower your ph and cause swings specially if your not using a buffer of any sort

 

[LbulletM]

I think your right. Vinegar is an acid, so to much will lower your ph and cause swings specially if your not using a buffer of any sort

Yea, a lot of people pair it with kalkwasser to avoid the pH drop. (I don't, because I'm the worst kind of lazy reefer).

 

[mkj]

in my old cube I had to make my return section small. The turbulence made my ATO float switches bounce sum but it still worked.

 

[LbulletM]

I think I'm going to go ahead and commit to the 29 gallon (still need to measure the space underneath the cabinet), but if so, hopefully I'll have enough volume in that section, despite being a short section, to attenuate that.

 

[Redleg]

I've got an old 29 that is going to be my sump for a 60 gallon cube. Right now I'm not planning on using a skimmer, but I'm going to borrow your sump layout. I will eventually add a skimmer to that first chamber. It's just not in the budget yet. The biggest down side of using the 29 is going to be stand height. I'm trying to keep my stand to about 32" high. Much more than that will require a step stool to reach everything in the tank.

 

[LbulletM]

I've got an old 29 that is going to be my sump for a 60 gallon cube. Right now I'm not planning on using a skimmer, but I'm going to borrow your sump layout. I will eventually add a skimmer to that first chamber. It's just not in the budget yet. The biggest down side of using the 29 is going to be stand height. I'm trying to keep my stand to about 32" high. Much more than that will require a step stool to reach everything in the tank.

Yeaaaa, I should probably do that whole "make sure a tank even fits under the counter" thing. It's an existing built in book case/table/storage/whatever, so I really should check. Went ahead and ordered pump, gate valve, overflow box, grow light for chaeto, and a return tube anyways.

Also need to figure out if drilling two 1" holes near the back of the counter will compromise anything structurally....

 

[Redleg]

Counter? Like a kitchen counter top. If so you should be ok.

 

[LbulletM]

Counter? Like a kitchen counter top. If so you should be ok.

Kind of, but more like a crappier, compressed wood, desk top. Like I said... built into the house when we bought. Plan is to eventually rip it out and put a 150g built in with a faux wall and new bar tops in that area if we decide not to move.

 

[Redleg]

I would go ahead and drill it. Then paint the inside of the holes and the bottom of the counter to seal it against the inevitable water spills . That stuff gets wet and it's just a matter of time till it fails.