Sump vs Canister Filter & Skimmer

[Ducrider]

I just picked up a UNS 90U Rimless Tank and plan on making it a reef tank full of SPS/LPS. Been about 10+ years since I've been in this hobby, so please excuse my ignorance as I'm trying to get back up to speed on everything.

I'm debating whether I should drill a hole in the tank, add an overflow and put in a sump OR if I should do as my LFS suggested and add an OASE BioMaster Thermo 850 (has 400 watt heater inside) and a Tunze 9012DC Skimmer. I've always thought doing a sump was the way to go for my desired outcome, but has the technology changed much in the last decade to warrant me going with the suggestion from the LFS? I'm looking at ~$800 for the OASE canister filter and Tunze skimmer combo, so my thoughts are the sump system wouldn't be that much different in terms of cost, and I do have the room under the tank to put a sump (using the UNS stand that matches the tank, measures 36" wide, 22" deep, and about 30" tall).

Appreciate the guidance!

 

[Greybeard]

I have no experience with the canister you're talking about, but as a reefer of many years experience, there's certainly nothing wrong with having a sump.

Comparing a sump to a canister filter really isn't possible... a sump, in it's simplest form, isn't really a filter at all. Just an area that tank water passes through outside of the main display. It's a place to hide gear, really. Among the many things you can hide in a sump would be filtration gear of just about any kind. Skimmers, sox, rollermat, reactors, refugeum, dosing tubes, probes, heaters, ATO systems... there's no end of 'stuff' you can hide in a sump.

Even if you do want that fancy canister filter, that doesn't mean you can't have or wouldn't want a sump. Having gear hanging on or located in the display can ruin the look you're going for.

IMHO, canister filters are rarely cleaned often enough to make them suitable for reef aquariums. Yeah, pile on... it's OK, I can take it. My opinion... worth what you paid for it, full refunds available. In my experience, canisters are difficult to clean, and most people only do so once a month, or once a quarter, or even less often. Food and detritus break down in the filter, and eventually get back into the tank as dissolved nutrients. Very similar to filter sox, really... to be most effective, you need to change 'em every couple of days. You want to clean a canister every couple of days? Me neither.

 

[Ducrider]

I have no experience with the canister you're talking about, but as a reefer of many years experience, there's certainly nothing wrong with having a sump.

Comparing a sump to a canister filter really isn't possible... a sump, in it's simplest form, isn't really a filter at all. Just an area that tank water passes through outside of the main display. It's a place to hide gear, really. Among the many things you can hide in a sump would be filtration gear of just about any kind. Skimmers, sox, rollermat, reactors, refugeum, dosing tubes, probes, heaters, ATO systems... there's no end of 'stuff' you can hide in a sump.

Even if you do want that fancy canister filter, that doesn't mean you can't have or wouldn't want a sump. Having gear hanging on or located in the display can ruin the look you're going for.

IMHO, canister filters are rarely cleaned often enough to make them suitable for reef aquariums. Yeah, pile on... it's OK, I can take it. My opinion... worth what you paid for it, full refunds available. In my experience, canisters are difficult to clean, and most people only do so once a month, or once a quarter, or even less often. Food and detritus break down in the filter, and eventually get back into the tank as dissolved nutrients. Very similar to filter sox, really... to be most effective, you need to change 'em every couple of days. You want to clean a canister every couple of days? Me neither.

Thank you for the valuable info! My last setup was mainly fish and some LPS. I'm wanting this to be a full blown show piece full of SPS/LPS with minimal items hanging off the tank, so I think my gut is saying "get the sump!", but wanting to confirm if the tech has gotten better to warrant a canister/skimmer setup (doesn't sound like it) vs a sump with everything housed within.

If I do go the sump route, what are some suggested overflow tanks/sumps/skimmers/etc.? The tank is 70 gallons, non-tempered low iron glass and I don't mind drilling holes in the bottom of it.

Thanks!

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I'm currently running a sump on one tank and fx4 on the other. I clean the can every Saturday morning as part of normal chores and it takes less than ten minutes from flow off to flow on so it's not that time consuming.

With that said, I LOVE being able to hide everything in the sump and would choose this route going forward again.

 

[Mjl714]

I wouldn’t drill the bottom, but the back, and use one of the many ghost overflows attached to the back of the tank. These really keep the display tank clean and maximize space.

 

[Ducrider]

I'm currently running a sump on one tank and fx4 on the other. I clean the can every Saturday morning as part of normal chores and it takes less than ten minutes from flow off to flow on so it's not that time consuming.

With that said, I LOVE being able to hide everything in the sump and would choose this route going forward again.

Thanks for the valuable feedback!

I wouldn’t drill the bottom, but the back, and use one of the many ghost overflows attached to the back of the tank. These really keep the display tank clean and maximize space.

Got it - any links of good ghost overflows you're referring to?

 

[Greybeard]

I concur with above... drill back glass, not bottom.

I'd encourage you to start here

Week 5: Plumbing, Overflows, and Return Pumps | 52 Weeks of Reefing #BRS160

It's Week 5 of 52 Weeks of Reefing, and this week we are plumbing the #BRS160! This week we are going to talk about the four types of overflows, give you some tips on installing a custom overflow including drilling the glass, various plumbing pieces, return pumps and then plumb our Reef Savvy...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Ducrider]

I concur with above... drill back glass, not bottom.

I'd encourage you to start here

Week 5: Plumbing, Overflows, and Return Pumps | 52 Weeks of Reefing #BRS160

It's Week 5 of 52 Weeks of Reefing, and this week we are plumbing the #BRS160! This week we are going to talk about the four types of overflows, give you some tips on installing a custom overflow including drilling the glass, various plumbing pieces, return pumps and then plumb our Reef Savvy...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Thanks!

Really appreciate you guys not attacking me with all these newbie type questions! haha

 

[Greybeard]

Thanks!

Really appreciate you guys not attacking me with all these newbie type questions! haha

We try and keep R2R friendly, and actually encourage new reefers. I know, it's a weird concept on the internet today.

 

[Ducrider]

We try and keep R2R friendly, and actually encourage new reefers. I know, it's a weird concept on the internet today.

Yes it is, really appreciate it!

 

[58e970b2-3f88-4897-87ba-5]

Having had a hang on the back skimmer for a short time so far, I can say I wish I had a sump.

Many people don’t have issues with them, but do something like overfeed raw seafood once and you will have a skimmer overflow to clean up along with never being able to truly trusting your skimmer again.

 

[Mjl714]

Thanks!

Really appreciate you guys not attacking me with all these newbie type questions! haha

Attacking, no way this is the best way to understand your options and achieve the very best build in the most efficient manner.

 

[sfin52]

Thank you for the valuable info! My last setup was mainly fish and some LPS. I'm wanting this to be a full blown show piece full of SPS/LPS with minimal items hanging off the tank, so I think my gut is saying "get the sump!", but wanting to confirm if the tech has gotten better to warrant a canister/skimmer setup (doesn't sound like it) vs a sump with everything housed within.

If I do go the sump route, what are some suggested overflow tanks/sumps/skimmers/etc.? The tank is 70 gallons, non-tempered low iron glass and I don't mind drilling holes in the bottom of it.

Thanks!

With that in mind you will hat the canister. Go with your gut and sump it.

 

[sfin52]

Nothing wrong with canister hob skimmer and what not. It all works. I don't even notice all the equipment in my tank. Some will some won't. I couldt drill.
Your looks is sps and LPS and a clean look if you can drill and add a sump do it. You will think your self later.

 

[Ducrider]

Any options for internal overflow box? Would really like to not have an overflow box hanging out the back of the tank. Yes this would mean I’d need to drill the bottom of the tank like a reef ready tank

 

[Greybeard]

Drilling the bottom works fine. You can glue up an internal overflow box from a few pieces of acrylic, or, if you ask around a local fish club, you might find someone who tore out a corner-flo kit, or someone with a cracked reef ready tank willing to cut out an overflow.

Or... I suppose you could get one 3d printed fairly easily

You can even get away without a 'box'... run a length of PVC from the bulkhead to the overflow height. Yeah... you're looking at pipe inside the tank, but it works fine. I did this myself years ago. Put a 1" bulkhead in the bottom, ran a length of 1" pipe to about 2" from the intended surface, put in a 1" to 1.5" adapter, and a 1.5" plastic shower drain cover right at the top. Worked great.

Quiet? Nope. Not with that sort of setup... but it _works_ fine

 

[dhnguyen]

If you really want to keep SPS at all then I would suggest doing a sump. It will make things so much easier.
Might want to start taking your LFS advice with a grain of salt as well. IMO they're just trying to push you to buy more stuff. The Tunze DOC 9012 IME/IMO isn't that great of a skimmer for the price point. What is attractive about it is its small foot print for space limited sump. As far as the canister filter, I wouldn't use one personally but if you do decide to use one I would chuck the bio media and only run it for carbon.

 

[dhnguyen]

Any options for internal overflow box? Would really like to not have an overflow box hanging out the back of the tank. Yes this would mean I’d need to drill the bottom of the tank like a reef ready tank

I just bought one of these and will be drilling the back of my tank. It has a very small foot print inside the tank. The external box on the back is only 3 inches wide.

Aquarium Overflows

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.marinedepot.com

Just like then eshopp's overflow just a bit cheaper. But from everything I read the marinedepot one seems like it needs an extra gasket between the tank glass and the external box to ensure a good seal and no leaks. Easy enough to get a couple extra gaskets.

 

[dhnguyen]

Thanks!

Really appreciate you guys not attacking me with all these newbie type questions! haha

Did you think this was Reef Central? LOL

 

[Ducrider]

If you really want to keep SPS at all then I would suggest doing a sump. It will make things so much easier.
Might want to start taking your LFS advice with a grain of salt as well. IMO they're just trying to push you to buy more stuff. The Tunze DOC 9012 IME/IMO isn't that great of a skimmer for the price point. What is attractive about it is its small foot print for space limited sump. As far as the canister filter, I wouldn't use one personally but if you do decide to use one I would chuck the bio media and only run it for carbon.

Thanks for the honest advice. I returned the canister filter and 2 Prime16HD's today. Going to go all in on a sump and do it right. Debated on returning the UNS tank since it's not "reef ready" and getting a reef ready tank. Another place I called locally was trying to talk me into a Red Sea Reefer 250. They said it's already plumbed and has the sump in the base, but my wife prefers the look of the UNS tank and I'm curious how the sump is in terms of quality vs an aftermarket sump from Trigger Systems or Fiji Cube.

I just bought one of these and will be drilling the back of my tank. It has a very small foot print inside the tank. The external box on the back is only 3 inches wide.

Aquarium Overflows

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.marinedepot.com

Just like then eshopp's overflow just a bit cheaper. But from everything I read the marinedepot one seems like it needs an extra gasket between the tank glass and the external box to ensure a good seal and no leaks. Easy enough to get a couple extra gaskets.

Thanks! I'll check it out. Really would like to keep it all internal and route the plumbing straight down into the stand, but we'll see what I can come up with.

Did you think this was Reef Central? LOL

LOL - noted!