Sumps with frag racks?

[b4tn]

I have been doing lots of reading on the subject. What are the pros and cons? I don't have the space for another complete system just for frags and it would be nice to keep frags out of the display. From what I have read I get lack of flow which could be solved with adding a power head to the frag area, excessive algae growth, and increased cleaning and maintenance. Below are two slightly different designs I found that I like. Anyone else have any success stories or reasons it did not work out?

 

[saltyphish]

As long as the lights can support the coral seems like it should work with regular maintenance

 

[zemuss]

Just a thought to limit the amount of pumps. Do a DIY manifold which would have 4 outlets. One for the return, one for the reactor and the other two spare. Over size the pump and eliminate the need for a reactor pump. What I do is take the return flow rate plus the reactor and anything else you want then the new flow rate is the pump i get. I have a dc3000 right now which runs my set up with a reactor and ATS sump

 

[b4tn]

As long as the lights can support the coral seems like it should work with regular maintenance

Thanks, I have not looked into lights just yet but was thinking something like a PAR30 or a single T5. Since appearance is not an issue and growth would be more of the goal I would probably shoot for something in the 5000k-7000k range.

 

[b4tn]

Just a thought to limit the amount of pumps. Do a DIY manifold which would have 4 outlets. One for the return, one for the reactor and the other two spare. Over size the pump and eliminate the need for a reactor pump. What I do is take the return flow rate plus the reactor and anything else you want then the new flow rate is the pump i get. I have a dc3000 right now which runs my set up with a reactor and ATS sump

The drawing is not mine I just found it. But I do have plans for a small algae scrubber or just chaeto in the refugium area. I do like your idea of a manifold if or when I go with a reactor. I would like to try and plan this so that I have options to add things at a later date. Since this is my first build I wouldn't be using the frag rack or the reactor for some time. thanks!

 

[FarmerTy]

Mine has worked well for me with little pre-planning as that wasn't my original idea.

It used to be my refugium. I removed the ball of chaeto and slapped an Ocean Revive T247 fixture over it and called it a day. It gets good turnover of water in there but not much flow. I haven't needed to add a powerhead to it either so they don't mind the lack of flow directly because the turnover rate in there seems sufficient.

Works perfect for me. The one drawback I have is when other reefers come by to shop my frags. It's hard for some to get down to look into my sump for frags.

 

[FarmerTy]

I would highly recommend using a similar spectrum in the frag tank as your DT. I tried the whole "increase my growth rate" idea with the yellower bulbs in the frag tank and while it did grow the corals a little faster, the hassle of having to color everything back up in "regular" lighting before selling was not worth it. Also, some corals had issues transitioning from the 8-10k light in the frag system to 14-20k light in the DT.

 

[b4tn]

That looks really good! What size sump/refusgium did you have? Did you use the standard 3 chamber design? That frag rack looks huge for being in a sump. Also how was the Coralline Algae growth in the sump? Did it end up all over your skimmer and other places it might not be welcome?

 

[143MPCo]

One thing that you might want to take under consideration is to block the lighting of the area that don't need or require it. You will get some sort of growth (algae) that sometimes cause it's own issues in these areas.

 

[b4tn]

One thing that you might want to take under consideration is to block the lighting of the area that don't need or require it. You will get some sort of growth (algae) that sometimes cause it's own issues in these areas.

Thanks, I did think of that. I was thinking of using black acrylic for the front section to minimize light getting into other sections and maybe a removable shield above the water line.

I am probably going to mock something up with cardboard tonight.

 

[143MPCo]

One thing that I would do is to move the filter sock down and create a drop for the drain to allow for easy access when removing the filter with an overflow lip for when it become fully clogged (if ever).

 

[FarmerTy]

That looks really good! What size sump/refusgium did you have? Did you use the standard 3 chamber design? That frag rack looks huge for being in a sump. Also how was the Coralline Algae growth in the sump? Did it end up all over your skimmer and other places it might not be welcome?

Unwanted growth was more of an issue when I was using a MH over the frag tank... Less so with the LEDs. Eventually though algae will grow over the baffles and block the light to the other chambers. I'll eventually mock up a dark fabric divider to do the same above the water line.

My sump is 75-gallon tank and the middle frag section is about a little short of 2' long and 18" wide. Yes, it is a standard 3-chamber design.

 

[b4tn]

Ok, here is my initial drawing. The measurements are approximate because i did not take into account glass thickness. Let me have your constructive criticism. 10x18x12 skimmer drain section. My overflow has 2, 1.5" drains which is why there are two filter sock areas. I forgot to add to the diagram but the filter sock area would just be a 5x10 plate with holes or U cutouts to hold the drains in place. My drain pipes are ultra flex PVC. Frag section would drop 1" and be 26x8x11. I would make an egg crate rack to set inside. Refugium section would drop 1" and be 13x10x10. Flow would continue through a bubble trap into the return area that would also be 13x10x10. I forgot to subtract a couple inches for the bubble trap but I am tracking it. Total volume for each chamber is labeled in the diagram and would be roughly 30 gallons with 10 gallons left over for siphon overflow if power goes out. I estimate that I would have about 5-6 gallons return to the sump if power goes out. The current plan is to make an easily removable L shaped black acrylic shield to set between the frag section and the other compartments approximately 12" high and use a cheap ebay Chinese black box for lighting.

 

[b4tn]

One thing that I would do is to move the filter sock down and create a drop for the drain to allow for easy access when removing the filter with an overflow lip for when it become fully clogged (if ever).

I have never seen that before but I love that idea!

 

[jlanger]

I'll reply; based on that photo shown in the first post is my sump.

Having the frag section in my sump was based on the same need you're looking at; no extra systems.
I have had the frag section running for about two years and it has worked out great. I have mainly kept my montipora frags down there, but it does work for most coral frags. A couple of removable frag racks make maintenance and organization of the frags a bit easier as well. I also use this section for corals that are not doing well and need extra attention; feeding LPS corals that need feedings to recover from poor conditions.

Two factors to consider when putting frags into your sump are water flow and lighting.
I added a small Korallia Nano pump to push water back against the flow of the sump. Otherwise the frags all grew with the flow in one direction; you spin the frags periodically, but the frags did better with more flow.
For lighting, I have two Ecoxotic LED fixtures that run during the night that have enough light to make the corals grow. I have adjusted the strength of the LEDs at time based on what frags are in the sump. The light does overspill somewhat. I routinely clean my skimmer as some algae will begin to grow near the lights. And the back corner is a good place for chaetomorpha algae or macro-algae to grow.

Maintenance is something that you will need to keep up on. I do weekly water changes anyways, so it was always a part of the schedule and it wasn't too bad. I also use a wet/dry vac to suck out any detritus that accumulates in the sump.

Here's an old pic showing the frag section in use.



From the original photo, notice that I added a baffle to direct the water flow down in the frag section as it falls over from the skimmer section.

I only have a couple of unwanted mushroom rocks in the section right now, but they are doing well in there.
So keeping a frag section in your sump does work, but it probably requires a little bit more attention. Being that it is inside of the stand and doesn't get inspected as much as a display tank, you may have to put a little more effort into keeping it clean if you ignore it for longer periods of time.

Good luck!

 

[b4tn]

I was hoping that design belonged to someone here that would chime in. Do you happen to have any dimensions or or more pictures from different angles. I really like your design and am pretty sold on doing mine based off yours.

 

[jlanger]

Here's a copy of my cut list for the 40gal Breeder sump.



Piece #1: Defines the drain/skimmer section. 11" end to the back. 9" end to the front.
Piece #2: Divides the sump in frag section/back section. 10" end to Piece #1. 8" end to Right End.
Piece #3: Bubble trap. Installed at 10" height.
Piece #4: Bubble trap. Installed at bottom about 1" from Piece #3.
Piece #5: Flow deflector. Forces water flow down in frag section. Installed at 10".

The frag section ends up being 9-½" by 24"; so I can use a 24" light fixture.


And here's a couple of other pics when I set up the sump.





Good luck.

 

[b4tn]

You rock!! Thanks!