twilliard
Tank pests..
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The higher the alkalinity the higher nutrients should be available
Sunset monti and monti cap fading
- Thread starter saltwater newby
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reefstacks
Well-Known Member
I have a variety of encrusting montis, including Sunset, Rainbow, Superman, Mystic Sunset, Blue Summit, and 3 or 4 others. All have shown excellent growth and coloration under medium to high lighting under my LEDs EXCEPT the Sunset! It is pale and faded under medium lighting too! I just recently moved it down and into a little bit of shade, and I expect it to color up nicely and start growing better soon.
That's all the input I have to offer, but I was interested to see that it isn't a problem that is unique to me alone. Good luck, let us know how it turns out!
That's all the input I have to offer, but I was interested to see that it isn't a problem that is unique to me alone. Good luck, let us know how it turns out!
I'm in the same boat here. I've got a sunset that has lost all color, barely extending its polyps, and doing a slow stn since I got it. It's now just half of what I bought.
A starburst monti frag has also lost much of its color. It has grown only Enough to heal the damage done from fragging at the lfs.
I'm running hydra26 hd lights about 11in above water line. The montis are on the bottom. A Forrest fire digi is doing okay up on the rocks, not growing but not losing much color. Other acropora are slowly growing up on rocks. I'm running 30% power on the leds. I'm also seeing around 5-10ppm nitrates. Phosphates are zero on my Hanna but I have some algae growth on glass so I know I have them.
Matt
A starburst monti frag has also lost much of its color. It has grown only Enough to heal the damage done from fragging at the lfs.
I'm running hydra26 hd lights about 11in above water line. The montis are on the bottom. A Forrest fire digi is doing okay up on the rocks, not growing but not losing much color. Other acropora are slowly growing up on rocks. I'm running 30% power on the leds. I'm also seeing around 5-10ppm nitrates. Phosphates are zero on my Hanna but I have some algae growth on glass so I know I have them.
Matt
Lenny_S
Well-Known Member
Totally agree... Some of my experience w.r.t water properties...The higher the alkalinity the higher nutrients should be available
Poisons (ammonia & nitrite) always 0
Calcium 380 to 450 ppm .... Within that range top or bottom no real noticeable difference
Magnesium 1200 to 1400 ppm..... Again, within that range top or bottom no real noticeable difference
Alkalinity 7 - 11 dKH ... personally I have not seen any benefit with levels higher than 8 dKH regardless of nutrient levels
Nitrate 2 - 10 ppm ... My experience was with a low bio load I had to dose potassium nitrate to get to about 5 ppm... That was good... But even better was I just kept adding fish until the system held 5 ppm without dosing. Bought a potassium test kit and found I was very high > 500 ppm. And that was only after a few months of dosing potassium nitrate. When that came down from water changes and I stopped dosing, everything was noticeably better.
Phosphate??? I never get a reading, even with my Hanna low range colorimeter... But I know it's there at some point. I feed 2x a day and combine frozen and pellet. I tested the water from the frozen food and even diluted it had a pretty good amount of phosphate in it. So basically I just thaw it in some RODI and dump it in, no rinsing. I think that alone adds enough phosphate to keep the corals happy.
There really is a lot of wiggle room in the major water params (excluding salinity) the most important thing is they don't keep fluctuating.
Like I said in my earlier post, lighting is a huge factor... And at least for me the most difficult to find what works. The 2 main factors for lights are spectrum and intensity. I couldn't tell you which is most important, because I think they both are. But with both of those there is still some wiggle room. I think the most common mistake with lightning, especially with LED, is having them too close to the water surface. Well, lets say that was MY biggest mistake. I used a standard AI Classic Rail Kit with legs and set it on my tank. That put the lights 8" AWL. I figured that was fine as I had 4 Hydra 26's and plenty of coverage for a 5' tank. But I wasn't really getting great results. So I threw a couple of 1x3's edge wise under the legs to raise the lights to 11" AWL, at the time I didn't change anything else. You can kinda see the wood blocks in this picture
Within a week I saw noticeable improvement. As much as the wood blocks added "character" to the tank, I wasn't feeling the look. So I got the hanging kit to clean things up a bit.
Anyway, sorry for the long winded post. Hopefully something in here will help you out.
Lenny_S
Well-Known Member
@Mattrg02, @reefstacks
Check my other posts to this thread, maybe something there will help.
Matt... If you have your Hydra's 11" AWL, you really don't need to run them at 30%, that is way too low. My lowest channel is green at 25% and next is UV at 45%... Everything else is way above that with the blues at the top @ 90%
When I get new corals I always ask what lighting they came from. If they are from Halide or T5 I'll start them somewhere in the center 1/3 of the tank, and maybe move them up after a few weeks. But if they come from LED I just put them where their permanent home will be right off. With that approach I've not had any issues and I've never not used acclimation mode on the lights since.
Edit: wanted to add that all my SPS are in the upper 2/3 of the tank. The only pieces in the lower 1/3 are LPS
Check my other posts to this thread, maybe something there will help.
Matt... If you have your Hydra's 11" AWL, you really don't need to run them at 30%, that is way too low. My lowest channel is green at 25% and next is UV at 45%... Everything else is way above that with the blues at the top @ 90%
When I get new corals I always ask what lighting they came from. If they are from Halide or T5 I'll start them somewhere in the center 1/3 of the tank, and maybe move them up after a few weeks. But if they come from LED I just put them where their permanent home will be right off. With that approach I've not had any issues and I've never not used acclimation mode on the lights since.
Edit: wanted to add that all my SPS are in the upper 2/3 of the tank. The only pieces in the lower 1/3 are LPS
OP
OP
saltwater newby
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Of course! Thank you!!Totally agree... Some of my experience w.r.t water properties...
Poisons (ammonia & nitrite) always 0
Calcium 380 to 450 ppm .... Within that range top or bottom no real noticeable difference
Magnesium 1200 to 1400 ppm..... Again, within that range top or bottom no real noticeable difference
Alkalinity 7 - 11 dKH ... personally I have not seen any benefit with levels higher than 8 dKH regardless of nutrient levels
Nitrate 2 - 10 ppm ... My experience was with a low bio load I had to dose potassium nitrate to get to about 5 ppm... That was good... But even better was I just kept adding fish until the system held 5 ppm without dosing. Bought a potassium test kit and found I was very high > 500 ppm. And that was only after a few months of dosing potassium nitrate. When that came down from water changes and I stopped dosing, everything was noticeably better.
Phosphate??? I never get a reading, even with my Hanna low range colorimeter... But I know it's there at some point. I feed 2x a day and combine frozen and pellet. I tested the water from the frozen food and even diluted it had a pretty good amount of phosphate in it. So basically I just thaw it in some RODI and dump it in, no rinsing. I think that alone adds enough phosphate to keep the corals happy.
There really is a lot of wiggle room in the major water params (excluding salinity) the most important thing is they don't keep fluctuating.
Like I said in my earlier post, lighting is a huge factor... And at least for me the most difficult to find what works. The 2 main factors for lights are spectrum and intensity. I couldn't tell you which is most important, because I think they both are. But with both of those there is still some wiggle room. I think the most common mistake with lightning, especially with LED, is having them too close to the water surface. Well, lets say that was MY biggest mistake. I used a standard AI Classic Rail Kit with legs and set it on my tank. That put the lights 8" AWL. I figured that was fine as I had 4 Hydra 26's and plenty of coverage for a 5' tank. But I wasn't really getting great results. So I threw a couple of 1x3's edge wise under the legs to raise the lights to 11" AWL, at the time I didn't change anything else. You can kinda see the wood blocks in this picture
Within a week I saw noticeable improvement. As much as the wood blocks added "character" to the tank, I wasn't feeling the look. So I got the hanging kit to clean things up a bit.
Anyway, sorry for the long winded post. Hopefully something in here will help you out.
Nice pics and nice tank.
What wattage are you using?
When I say 30% I mean total power. I'm running my lights at 30w as measured from a power meter. My blues are all around 60% and the rest at something around 30%. This results in 30w power draw. So, could my monti problems be from too little light?
When I say 30% I mean total power. I'm running my lights at 30w as measured from a power meter. My blues are all around 60% and the rest at something around 30%. This results in 30w power draw. So, could my monti problems be from too little light?
Lenny_S
Well-Known Member
Got it, those are like 90 watt total power fixtures, same total wattage as my older model. The hard part about trying to relate the older Hydra's to the new HDs is I don't have the power measurement. All I can see in the AI director is channel percentage with mine.
But yes, depending on how deep your tank is, with the lights that high AWL, those settings are pretty low.
My tank is 24" deep, here are my settings and photo period.
I've got a 17in deep tank. Both problem montiporas are on the bottom and in the corner. As far away from the light as possible. They were in direct light before, but haven't shown any positive signs since moving.
At what point do we assume the problem is too little light?
At what point do we assume the problem is too little light?
Lenny_S
Well-Known Member
Another component of coral health is water movement. SPS Corals need a lot of water movement. In my tank I have a Gyre in pulse mode and 3 large power heads on a wave controller. I setup the Gyre and one power head to create a strong surge and turbidity at the top 2/3 of the tank, and a couple more power heads to create a counter current on the bottom for a more gentle flow at the bottom 1/3 (better for LPS and doesn't blow the sand around).
To get a sense of what I mean by "strong" water movement. I have a mariculture SPS on an aragonite base at the opposite end of the tank from the Gyre. When the Gyre pulses it rocks he piece on the ledge it sits on.
So having your montis tucked away in a corner is restricting both light and flow.
I would try to find a spot 1/2 way down in your tank where it will get full light and good random or turbid water movement.
And if you're running 60% on both your blue channels (RB & DB) and 30% on the others... I would try to raise just the cool white (CW) to like 45% as well and see what happens.
vedros74
Active Member
I had a similar problem with all the caps in my tank and was getting thoroughly frustrated as a last resort I turned off my GFO and carbon reactors and within a week all caps started to regain color and started growing again. Can't say for sure what it was but I think my water was to clean either the carbon or GFO was stripping some nutrients out of the water
Lenny_S
Well-Known Member
I still run carbon, never GFO because I think it does strip too much from the water in some cases.
And partly for temperature management, but mostly to not take too much out of the tank, my Apex shuts down my skimmer and carbon reactor from 8:00am to 7:00pm
Been doing that since the warmer weather started in May and have seen further improvement in coral health and no ill effects. No algae, cyano, etc...
vedros74
Active Member
Good idea I'll be setting up my apex this weekend hopefully and I think I'll do the same
McMullen
Valuable Member
There have been lots of great ideas and suggestions on Sps care but the OP seems to have a specific problem, light. Both coral bleached, but the cap is improving from lower light. The sunset may still be getting too much. Had the cap not improved, less likely a lighting issue.
najer
Valuable Member
I would also say light, I have about 10 different encrusting montis and they are always the most sensitive to light changes.
I run a hybrid now, a lot of leds still focus "harshly", IME, hence the raising leds physically as above and getting wider angle lenses to "soften" the focus.
I run a hybrid now, a lot of leds still focus "harshly", IME, hence the raising leds physically as above and getting wider angle lenses to "soften" the focus.
