Super confused about 2 Part dosing calculator info

robbyg · Jul 1, 2020

For the last 14 years I have been using a calcium reactor but I honestly just got tired of fiddling with it and decided to go to 2 Part. Yes I know that is going in the opposite direction that most people go but I just liked the idea of not having to constantly be messing with drip rates, bubble rates and pH probe calibrations etc.

Ok so here is the question. I am using ESV Bionic and everything I have always been told says that you add equal parts of the two part. So far that has been working for me to a point, but I sometimes deviate slightly.

So today I am looking at the Marine depot online calculator for ESV and when I put in raising the Ca from 408ppm to 425ppm on 95 gallons of water I get a measurement of 100ml of Part B.

When I go to the Alk Calculator and put in 8.2Dkh to 8.5Dkh it tells me 12.5ml of Part A.

When I look back at my logs from when I was setting back up my tank that I was getting those kinds of drops, .3Dkh and 20ppm Ca per day. So my question is what he heck is going on? Are the calculators wrong or is the equal amounts statement not true? The 100ml of Part B seems to be super high!

User1 · Jul 1, 2020

Hi Robbyg - I honestly don't know what to say other than when I was using it I started with their recommended dose which I found on their FAQ. They said: The recommended starting dose is 1 ml. of each component per 4 gallons of aquarium capacity per day, and with regular testing, you can adjust your dose accordingly.

I was also using using ESV 2 part and started dosing both equally. However, I was noticing that my ALK was not holding steady and decreasing every other day yet Ca and Mag was holding steady so I increased ALK. Ended up that in my situation I needed to increase ALK for whatever reason and it was never equal.

I've recently switched to Tropic Marin All For Reef using the DIY recipe and still adding a bit of ALK over their recommended dose until I can wean off it. Not sure I helped you but I was adding a bit more of one compared to the other if it helps any. 100ml does seem a bit much.

robbyg · Jul 1, 2020

saf1 said:
Hi Robbyg - I honestly don't know what to say other than when I was using it I started with their recommended dose which I found on their FAQ. They said: The recommended starting dose is 1 ml. of each component per 4 gallons of aquarium capacity per day, and with regular testing, you can adjust your dose accordingly.

I was also using using ESV 2 part and started dosing both equally. However, I was noticing that my ALK was not holding steady and decreasing every other day yet Ca and Mag was holding steady so I increased ALK. Ended up that in my situation I needed to increase ALK for whatever reason and it was never equal.

I've recently switched to Tropic Marin All For Reef using the DIY recipe and still adding a bit of ALK over their recommended dose until I can wean off it. Not sure I helped you but I was adding a bit more of one compared to the other if it helps any. 100ml does seem a bit much.

Thanks Saf1
I really think someone who has a contact at MD needs to let them know that the calculator is out of whack when it comes to calcium calculations with B-Ionic. At this point I am dosing about 40ml of each and that seems to keep thing in balance with about 95 gal of water when I roughly remove what the rock work is displacing. How much were you using on your tank before the switch? I know it varies a lot depending on what you have in the tank.

JimWelsh · Jul 2, 2020

robbyg said:
When I look back at my logs from when I was setting back up my tank that I was getting those kinds of drops, .3Dkh and 20ppm Ca per day.

0.3 dKH of alkalinity and 20 PPM Ca are not anywhere near balanced. 0.3 dKH = 0.3 / 2.8 = 0.107 meq, which is in balance with 0.107 / 2 = 0.0535 mM * 40.078 = 2.15 PPM of Ca. Your observed consumption has the Ca consumption being around 10 times a balanced ratio, relative to your observed alkalinity consumption. The problem in the assumption that your early observation was of a balanced consumption.

robbyg · Jul 2, 2020

JimWelsh said:
0.3 dKH of alkalinity and 20 PPM Ca are not anywhere near balanced. 0.3 dKH = 0.3 / 2.8 = 0.107 meq, which is in balance with 0.107 / 2 = 0.0535 mM * 40.078 = 2.15 PPM of Ca. Your observed consumption has the Ca consumption being around 10 times a balanced ratio, relative to your observed alkalinity consumption. The problem in the assumption that your early observation was of a balanced consumption.

OK I think I get most of the Math although my head is now hurting

Is that 40.078 a conversion factor from micromoles to ppm?
So how would I have balanced the consumption? Are you saying that the two part should be added to target a balanced set of numbers and not added in equal quantities? Also how did I get an out of balance consumption, would that mean something else is bonding to the Ca like PO4?
Thanks.

JimWelsh · Jul 2, 2020

robbyg said:
Is that 40.078 a conversion factor from micromoles to ppm?

It is the atomic mass of Ca, so, yes.

robbyg · Jul 2, 2020

JimWelsh said:
It is the atomic mass of Ca, so, yes.

Thanks, that cleared that up. Any thoughts on the second question.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 2, 2020

robbyg said:
When I look back at my logs from when I was setting back up my tank that I was getting those kinds of drops, .3Dkh and 20ppm Ca per day. So my question is what he heck is going on? Are the calculators wrong or is the equal amounts statement not true? The 100ml of Part B seems to be super high!

Those are not balanced at all, and no equal parts two part or reactor will match that. Maybe you meant 3 dKH in the old notes? B-ionic will match that.

The ratio in calcium carbonate is 2.8 dKH for 18-20 ppm calcium.

User1 · Jul 2, 2020

robbyg said:
Thanks Saf1
I really think someone who has a contact at MD needs to let them know that the calculator is out of whack when it comes to calcium calculations with B-Ionic. At this point I am dosing about 40ml of each and that seems to keep thing in balance with about 95 gal of water when I roughly remove what the rock work is displacing. How much were you using on your tank before the switch? I know it varies a lot depending on what you have in the tank.

My tank is still maturing even after 2 years (they joys of dry rock). In any case I was around 42 ml's a day if I recall. I tried to go back and did not write any notes down. 210 gallon tank mostly soft with a few test lps/sps frags and a clam. I calculated based on 170 gallons due to amount of sand, rock, etc.

I'm dosing about 45 ml of TM AFR ironically enough and it seems to be keeping my alk at around 8.5 although I'm starting to see my calcium drop to 401 - 410 when it is normally closer to 440 - 450. I use instant ocean reef crystals when I remember to do water changes so this is what worked for me.

robbyg · Jul 2, 2020

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Those are not balanced at all, and no equal parts two part or reactor will match that. Maybe you meant 3 dKH in the old notes? B-ionic will match that.

The ratio in calcium carbonate is 2.8 dKH for 18-20 ppm calcium.

Thanks for the Reply Randy.
Even at my current numbers I am not getting a balanced dose for the two. The Alk and Ca rise as expected but my calcium level is lower than I would like at around 410ppm and Alk hoovering near 8.5. I would love to raise the Ca up to about 425. In your opinion Randy is it ok to add more Part B than Part A until I get them in balance or is this going to be a continual issue where that Ca keeps dropping faster no matter what I do?

I am probably going about it all wrong as the balance of Ca drop would have a fixed value of Alk drop that goes with it to make the two part dosing become equal. I have heard people mention this and say that only huge water changes can fix the problem. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 3, 2020

robbyg said:
Thanks for the Reply Randy.
Even at my current numbers I am not getting a balanced dose for the two. The Alk and Ca rise as expected but my calcium level is lower than I would like at around 410ppm and Alk hoovering near 8.5. I would love to raise the Ca up to about 425. In your opinion Randy is it ok to add more Part B than Part A until I get them in balance or is this going to be a continual issue where that Ca keeps dropping faster no matter what I do?

I am probably going about it all wrong as the balance of Ca drop would have a fixed value of Alk drop that goes with it to make the two part dosing become equal. I have heard people mention this and say that only huge water changes can fix the problem. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Certainly add more of the calcium part all at once or over a few days to boost it. That is the way to correct low calcium. Don't add matching alk.

robbyg · Jul 3, 2020

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Certainly add more of the calcium part all at once or over a few days to boost it. That is the way to correct low calcium. Don't add matching alk.

Thank you so very much for that clear answer. In the past I have seen so many conflicting replies on this topic.