Super low salinity from Live Aquaria

[Empress]

I've received 5 different fish in 5 different bags from the same vendor on the same morning. Each bag had a different salinity reading by more than 2 points. How was I supposed to acclimate to that? I found the middle ground and crossed my fingers that they would all make it. This was not LA or DD.

 

[iemsparticus]

I've received 5 different fish in 5 different bags from the same vendor on the same morning. Each bag had a different salinity reading by more than 2 points. How was I supposed to acclimate to that? I found the middle ground and crossed my fingers that they would all make it. This was not LA or DD.

5 different quarantine tanks? Lol

Yeah that's ridiculous.

 

[Reef Dude]

Just placed an order through LA, which I'll be receiving tomorrow. Now I'm nervous lol. I order from them frequently, but it's always through Diver's Den. However, for the first time in years, I ordered a couple fish and a clam from the regular part of their website (i.e. Not from the diver's den). I'm glad I saw this thread, as now I'll be sure to check the salinity and acclimate well beyond what I typically do.

I will say that my experience with customer service has been top notch. Not sure if I've ever had better customer service anywhere actually. They offer a replacement or refund with no questions asked and no hoops to jump through - I recently had to do this when I had a $200 coral shipped to me, they didn't tape the ice pack to the lid, ice pack sits against the bag for the entire time its, shipped... You get the picture... DOA. It's good that it's so easy to get a refund or replacement when shipments don't work out, but I feel terrible that the animals are subjected to these conditions while dying in the process.

 

[Empress]

5 different quarantine tanks? Lol

Yeah that's ridiculous.

One 40g. They were all small and I had a divider in the middle. All made it thru and are now fat and happy in my DT. [emoji226]

 

[Crashjack]

I'll have to do more research when time permits, but my initial findings appear to support your argument:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...nity_on_oxygen_consumption_in_fishes_A_review

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022098115001987

Thanks! Glad someone who has actually done some research is actually looking into (obviously rules me out). Please post if you find anything else.

 

[saltyhog]

I'm convinced fish are much more tolerant of changes in salinity (more so trending down than up) than we think. I remember a dive site in Cozumel that had a large freshwater stream flowing in to a shallow (30-35') reef. The prism effect of the two different bodies of water would almost make you nauseous but there were many fish in this shallow reef including gobies and other mobility challenged fish and inverts and they all appeared healthy. There were even a lot of skunk cleaner shrimp that were seemingly unaffected. You know that the salinity in that reef varied wildly during and after rain storms.

 

[enveetie]

I'm convinced fish are much more tolerant of changes in salinity (more so trending down than up) than we think. I remember a dive site in Cozumel that had a large freshwater stream flowing in to a shallow (30-35') reef. The prism effect of the two different bodies of water would almost make you nauseous but there were many fish in this shallow reef including gobies and other mobility challenged fish and inverts and they all appeared healthy. There were even a lot of skunk cleaner shrimp that were seemingly unaffected. You know that the salinity in that reef varied wildly during and after rain storms.

i absolutely agree, and have seen it myself anecdotally when i used to be in the lfs business. still, when it comes to handling your own personal fish you always want to take above-and-beyond type measures to ensure their environment is as stable as positive during the most unstable time period of transport.

 

[Crashjack]

I'm convinced fish are much more tolerant of changes in salinity (more so trending down than up) than we think. I remember a dive site in Cozumel that had a large freshwater stream flowing in to a shallow (30-35') reef. The prism effect of the two different bodies of water would almost make you nauseous but there were many fish in this shallow reef including gobies and other mobility challenged fish and inverts and they all appeared healthy. There were even a lot of skunk cleaner shrimp that were seemingly unaffected. You know that the salinity in that reef varied wildly during and after rain storms.

No doubt they are tolerant and in nature encounter lower salinities in lagoons, near river mouths, etc. However, we're being told that fish are better-off when kept in salinities significantly lower than their natural habitats and that fish fair better when shipped at significantly lower salinities than their natural habitats. I just want to see something to substantiate that.

 

[saltyhog]

No doubt they are tolerant and in nature encounter lower salinities in lagoons, near river mouths, etc. However, we're being told that fish are better-off when kept in salinities significantly lower than their natural habitats and that fish fair better when shipped at significantly lower salinities than their natural habitats. I just want to see something to substantiate that.

Oh I agree. I don't think there is really a significant benefit from lower salinity. It's one of the old axioms that just won't die. I just also think it's not that big of a deal and doesn't cause the fish any harm. I have bought from several on line stores and several LFS in my area. If I only bought from places that have fish at 35 ppt salinity I wouldn't have many fish. DD is the only place that I have bought fish at NSW salinity. The other online store I've used that has the highest salinity is (coincidentally I believe) the one with the worst survival rate.

I wish they would keep fish in 35ppt because that's what my tank is and what would make it easiest on me. I hate having to gradually ramp up the salinity during TTM.

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks! Glad someone who has actually done some research is actually looking into (obviously rules me out). Please post if you find anything else.

I've bookmarked some studies/publications on the subject, and once I get some free time I will read them all. I will then start a thread on the subject, providing links & citations. But I'm pretty sure you're in the right, and I'm in the wrong about this. Thank you for challenging the status quo.

 

[Crashjack]

But I'm pretty sure you're in the right, and I'm in the wrong about this. Thank you for challenging the status quo.

Hey, it just goes to show that every once in a while, a blind squirrel really does find a nut.

 

[Brew12]

I've been beating the drum on this for awhile. Very frustrated with the low salinity fish are being kept at.

One 20 year-old article isn't the beat-all-end-all, but if lower salinities are actually better for fish, there has to be some mention in a study or scientific literature somewhere... something more than fish retailers telling us it is better.

Low salinity is better for fish retailers. Less salt, lower cost. I'm not thinking its better for the fish.

I'll have to do more research when time permits, but my initial findings appear to support your argument:

I've found it very challenging to find information on this. The majority of studies I have found are on fish that can transition to low salinity and back. It's almost like the scientists feel there is no value to studying fish that live in fairly constant salinity experiencing a change. After all, no one would be dumb enough to...

 

[Undertaker]

I'm glad I saw this I was about to place an order from them. Does anyone know of another online store to buy from?

 

[Big G]

I'm glad I saw this I was about to place an order from them. Does anyone know of another online store to buy from?

Blue Zoo Aquatics

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Received an order last week... DD item came in at 1.023 and regular LA item came in at 1.015. Basically forces you to quarantine just in order to acclimate. I would assume many less experienced people just drip acclimate for an hour and then plop them in (I did this for years) and the jump from 1.015 to 1.025 in an hour or two is likely to kill many fish. You'd think LA might want to have a talk with their supplier QM since I'm sure they are covering losses that are occurring due to this.

 

[Crashjack]

Blue Zoo Aquatics

I emailed Blue Zoo a while back and asked them what salinity they shipped at. If memory serves me correctly, they said 1.018. I've got an order coming from Among the Reef, who claims to ship at 1.022-1.023. I'll know Tuesday.

 

[Big G]

I emailed Blue Zoo a while back and asked them what salinity they shipped at. If memory serves me correctly, they said 1.018. I've got an order coming from Among the Reef, who claims to ship at 1.022-1.023. I'll know Tuesday.

Wow! Good to know.

 

[Crashjack]

Received an order last week... DD item came in at 1.023 and regular LA item came in at 1.015. Basically forces you to quarantine just in order to acclimate. I would assume many less experienced people just drip acclimate for an hour and then plop them in (I did this for years) and the jump from 1.015 to 1.025 in an hour or two is likely to kill many fish. You'd think LA might want to have a talk with their supplier QM since I'm sure they are covering losses that are occurring due to this.

Yeah, you're fine if you just order from DD, but if you want something additional that DD doesn't have, you're stuck. That's exactly what just happened to me. I wanted 3 fish, but DD had only one, and I wasn't going to fool with 1 DD fish at 1.023-1.025 and 2 LA fish at 1.015-1.018. Therefore, I went elsewhere.

 

[patfat]

You know what’s funny..I just watched a video from Mr saltwater and he was talking with LA and they just introduced they have their own brand of salt that their making but they said they are using it in all their systems...so now we know that their brand of salt won’t be worth taking the risk of trying out

 

[leahfiish]

You know what’s funny..I just watched a video from Mr saltwater and he was talking with LA and they just introduced they have their own brand of salt that their making but they said they are using it in all their systems...so now we know that their brand of salt won’t be worth taking the risk of trying out

I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion?