Supporting a tank on the second level with limited options

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

So I'm looking at houses right now and realllly trying hard not to let this hobby influence my decision (sadly can't afford a home big enough for a fish room though). This is more a question out of curiosity than desperation though:

How do you add support for a large tank in a home on the second floor? For example, the condo I'm looking at (SoCal, prices are nuts) is on a hill (with a sliver ocean view lol) and you enter on the second floor with the bedrooms one floor below you. If I wanted to add a nice big tank that you'd see on entry, or one in the living room, I'd probably need to shore / sister up the joists under the tank and improve the support on the second floor (which I believe is on a slab like most homes out here). The problem is any of the spots where I'd place the tank have a bedroom or bathroom under them. So adding vertical support isn't an option unless the tank happened to be over a closet, bathroom wall, or other interior wall -- and if that was the case, would I be able to strengthen that interior wall enough without changing the layout?

I understand these are vague questions but if anyone can chime in with their experiences that would be great.

Most of the homes I'm looking at down here were built between 1975-1990. This condo in particular was built in 1978.

 

[Fishnut]

I wouldn’t go larger then a 55. Most home second floors can handle that. Try to span as many beams as possible. “3 with a four foot tank”

 

[JoshH]

If the spot you want to position the tank is above a bedroom this is actually perfect. All you need to do is pull down the ceiling in the room, sister up the floor joists under the tank and throw some more studs in directly beneath the sistered joists (or steel jack post) to carry the load to the concrete floor. I will suggest consulting an engineer depending on the overall size of the tank you wish to have as you may need footings poured as well, once again, depending the size of the tank you want.

If the floor structure under the tank is concrete, well that complicates things a touch. There are however ways to reinforce that it's just.... expensive. Lol

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

If the spot you want to position the tank is above a bedroom this is actually perfect. All you need to do is pull down the ceiling in the room, sister up the floor joists under the tank and throw some more studs in directly beneath the sistered joists (or steel jack post) to carry the load to the concrete floor. I will suggest consulting an engineer depending on the overall size of the tank you wish to have as you may need footings poured as well, once again, depending the size of the tank you want.

If the floor structure under the tank is concrete, well that complicates things a touch. There are however ways to reinforce that it's just.... expensive. Lol

to clarify, the living room is above the bedroom and the bedroom sits on concrete. So running supports from the joists would make for an ugly bedroom lol! (Unless you did one of those royal-style bed frame things LOL) i just did a second walkthrough today and confirmed where I’d put the tank is above a closet system and some other interior walls.

so it seems the question now is how to strengthen those interior walls (if necessary) and how to sister the joists and how much of that to do depending on tank volume / dimns (could be 50-300g I have no idea yet). I would likely want a taller tank so more pressure per sq/ft. Fortunately one of my family friends owns a construction company so I can get some help, I’m just sort of spitballing right now and getting ideas.

 

[Cwentz758]

to clarify, the living room is above the bedroom and the bedroom sits on concrete. So running supports from the joists would make for an ugly bedroom lol! (Unless you did one of those royal-style bed frame things LOL) i just did a second walkthrough today and confirmed where I’d put the tank is above a closet system and some other interior walls.

so it seems the question now is how to strengthen those interior walls (if necessary) and how to sister the joists and how much of that to do depending on tank volume / dimns (could be 50-300g I have no idea yet). I would likely want a taller tank so more pressure per sq/ft. Fortunately one of my family friends owns a construction company so I can get some help, I’m just sort of spitballing right now and getting ideas.

Could just make it a decorative stripper pole. Why can’t pole dancing be your second hobby?

 

[JoshH]

to clarify, the living room is above the bedroom and the bedroom sits on concrete. So running supports from the joists would make for an ugly bedroom lol! (Unless you did one of those royal-style bed frame things LOL) i just did a second walkthrough today and confirmed where I’d put the tank is above a closet system and some other interior walls.

so it seems the question now is how to strengthen those interior walls (if necessary) and how to sister the joists and how much of that to do depending on tank volume / dimns (could be 50-300g I have no idea yet). I would likely want a taller tank so more pressure per sq/ft. Fortunately one of my family friends owns a construction company so I can get some help, I’m just sort of spitballing right now and getting ideas.

So if the floor support between your living room above and the bedrooms below is standard wood joists? You don't need to put any supports underneath the joists themselves directly under the tank. Just sister the joists that are under the tank itself from one bedroom wall to the other and add studs within the wall itself under the sistered joists. This will carry the load from the floor laterally across to the bedroom walls and the extra studs will carry it to the concrete floor. Everything would be hidden within the ceiling and walls so nothing noticeable from the bedroom.

Obviously this is still all dependent on how big of a tank you are looking at as even sistered joists might not be enough and you might be looking into LVL/Steel beams, jack posts and new footings under those.

And if you ever had to add supports below the joists you could do a coffered ceiling look depending on ceiling height to hide it all as well. LOTS of options for you to work with

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

So I'm looking at houses right now and realllly trying hard not to let this hobby influence my decision (sadly can't afford a home big enough for a fish room though). This is more a question out of curiosity than desperation though:

How do you add support for a large tank in a home on the second floor? For example, the condo I'm looking at (SoCal, prices are nuts) is on a hill (with a sliver ocean view lol) and you enter on the second floor with the bedrooms one floor below you. If I wanted to add a nice big tank that you'd see on entry, or one in the living room, I'd probably need to shore / sister up the joists under the tank and improve the support on the second floor (which I believe is on a slab like most homes out here). The problem is any of the spots where I'd place the tank have a bedroom or bathroom under them. So adding vertical support isn't an option unless the tank happened to be over a closet, bathroom wall, or other interior wall -- and if that was the case, would I be able to strengthen that interior wall enough without changing the layout?

I understand these are vague questions but if anyone can chime in with their experiences that would be great.

Most of the homes I'm looking at down here were built between 1975-1990. This condo in particular was built in 1978.

I have a 200 gallon tank.... let’s do some math : )

with the sump, I have 210 gallons of water x 8.6 lbs per gallon of water = 1,806 lbs plus weight of tank and stand... (guessing here...) 300 lbs? Let’s call it 400 lbs... so, a total of 2,200 lbs. so...

the tank is 2’ x 6”, so 12 square feet or 1,728 square inches

Or... 1.27~ pounds per square inch.... I am pretty sure your refrigerator is heavier... per square inch.

Put it on an outside wall, or next to a load bearing wall... you should be fine. : )

i have a pool table upstairs that weighs more that... sitting in the middle of the room : )

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

I have a 200 gallon tank.... let’s do some math : )

with the sump, I have 210 gallons of water x 8.6 lbs per gallon of water = 1,806 lbs plus weight of tank and stand... (guessing here...) 300 lbs? Let’s call it 400 lbs... so, a total of 2,200 lbs. so...

the tank is 2’ x 6”, so 12 square feet or 1,728 square inches

Or... 1.27~ pounds per square inch.... I am pretty sure your refrigerator is heavier... per square inch.

Put it on an outside wall, or next to a load bearing wall... you should be fine. : )

i have a pool table upstairs that weighs more that... sitting in the middle of the room : )

I appreciate the perspective for sure. This home is a bit of a stretch for me and I feel uncomfortable with "should" when it comes to structural engineering and supporting the weight of a bunch of saltwater that could destroy the entire living space of my condo or house. Come to think of it, I probably don't have enough savings to cover extensive damage like that and should figure the insurance situation out :0.

I agree, it's probably built well enough but a few grand (tops) of insurance in the form of beefcake joists would help me sleep at night (especially sleeping directly under the tank ;Deadlol). Maybe it could have some glam like a stripper pole you never know. I'll bring it up with the girl I've been on 10 dates with lol

The overall weight is still significantly more than a fridge so I"m just being cautious.

So if the floor support between your living room above and the bedrooms below is standard wood joists? You don't need to put any supports underneath the joists themselves directly under the tank. Just sister the joists that are under the tank itself from one bedroom wall to the other and add studs within the wall itself under the sistered joists. This will carry the load from the floor laterally across to the bedroom walls and the extra studs will carry it to the concrete floor. Everything would be hidden within the ceiling and walls so nothing noticeable from the bedroom.

Obviously this is still all dependent on how big of a tank you are looking at as even sistered joists might not be enough and you might be looking into LVL/Steel beams, jack posts and new footings under those.

And if you ever had to add supports below the joists you could do a coffered ceiling look depending on ceiling height to hide it all as well. LOTS of options for you to work with

Glad to know I have options. This will (potentially) be my second home so while I'm familiar with the construction terms, I've yet to do any of this kind of analysis/work. I would assume any steel components would require too much construction / change in the layout if posts need to be added. The bedroom ceilings likely shouldn't go any lower and the closets form the interior walls -- so jack posts would intrude on closet space? Unsure how that would shake out but for some reason the steel gives me more comfort than wood. This is why I'm a software engineer not a structural engineer. everything I touch would beyond overbuilt!

The second variable is the earthquake proofing. Seriously huge reef tanks and earthquakes YIKES haha. I almost wonder if sticking it on industrial casters would work haha. I remember when I was younger the 'family' (my lucky butt's) 120g acrylic tank experienced a mag 4-5 quake and sloshed water around but was totally fine. idk.

 

[Johnd651]

Not a structural engineer here...just something I did to remove sag in a really old house.

I will need to grab a picture in the morning but I did something like this for a different reason (house from 1886 with trusses in the attic perpendicular to the roof trusses pulling up the second floor with giant steel rods...so basically the second floor floated in spots). I needed to remove sag so I actually used 2x8s and spanned a room, and then hid additional supports in the walls to hold up the 2x8s. The vertical lumber supports sit directly on 12x12 ledgers on top of a stacked stone foundation. Afterwards I trimmed everything with flat trim and crown moulding so it looks part of the room.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

For funsies, here's pictures from the listing and walkthrough. See the fireplace in the middle? My idea would be to put a tank against the fireplace (where the piano is currently). Other idea is to put a tank beside the fireplace as a built-in room divider but that would limit tank size and might have heat issues from the fireplace (through there is a ton of drywall between the actual fire box or whatever you call it).

See the tree? I'm thinking rip that weird shelf thing (wine cooler goes under it?) and do a full built in and either: build the tank in at a normal height, install cabinetry from floor to tank bottom, and from tank top to ceiling (canopy), then drywall the fireplace so it's flush against the tank (this would provide a tv mounting surface, which is currently missing from the room). OR build the tank in low off the ground so the top of the tank sits flush with the fireplace design (but then you have an awkward looking tank and you'll have lights hanging down into the room)... so maybe the built in approach isn't a good one. Curious what other creative minds have to say.

These bottom images show the bedroom layout UNDER the living / formal room (what the fireplace divides). I believe the fireplace sits near or above the bathroom setup, which has plenty of interior walls to work with. There's a good chance the tank will sit: over the bathroom between the closets, over the bedroom, or directly over the closet walls themselves. All options that appear to have strengthening possibilities.

Again just spitballing as I have yet to sell my other home but it's a ton of fun to think about and if I'm serious I will need to start planning as soon as I buy.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

OR forget all that trouble and stick the tank directly on the slab right here. Downside is people won't see it as much and it would be hard to make this a sitting area to enjoy the tank. Upside is it's right next to a huge linen closet and quartz counter (testing and supplies convenience) and it borders the laundry room and water (easy RO/DI, mixing station, etc but not big enough for a fish room which is out of budget anyways)

OK sorry I'm having too much fun with this.

 

[Johnd651]

The one trim box houses the beams, the other one is a fake so that the room looks symmetrical.

 

[AcroNem]

I'll start with the obligatory "I'm not an engineer" but my 150 is on a floor with a room under it. I did look to ensure that several floor joists, which are on a load bearing wall beneath it, are spread under the tank not just one running the length or something. But as will be best, if you're thinking about putting it on a slab of concrete, put it on a slab of concrete.

 

[ca1ore]

So I'm looking at houses right now and realllly trying hard not to let this hobby influence my decision

Made me chuckle. Been in my current house since 1997, but when I was looking back then it was important that any I bought have a big enough room for my stereo system and robust enough floors for my reef tanks.

 

[RollTideReefer]

4ft vs 5ft tank

Thanks! Unfortunately cannot fit a peninsula - I only have a long stretch of a wall where the tank can go and it's alongside the dining table and my wife already declined my careful suggestion to move the dining table elsewhere :) At the moment I think I'm choosing between WB 130.4 (like it...

www.reef2reef.com

Follow that link to another thread about putting larger tanks on a second floor. The link in that post to African's article is a phenomenal resource.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

I'll start with the obligatory "I'm not an engineer" but my 150 is on a floor with a room under it. I did look to ensure that several floor joists, which are on a load bearing wall beneath it, are spread under the tank not just one running the length or something. But as will be best, if you're thinking about putting it on a slab of concrete, put it on a slab of concrete.

Yeah, honestly the ground floor option is a way safer play, even if the RODI overflows, tank breaks, sump leaks, etc, it will be contained to the bottom level instead of ruining all of the upper and bottom floor. I know this stuff is rare but I'm paranoid. Problem is you could fit a nice sized tank in that space but nowhere to put a seat or cozy spot to actually enjoy it!