Switch to metal halides?

Nemofan7998 · Dec 6, 2014

Not sure if I should switch. I want nice shimmer, and good lighting for coral. But I was told that I need a chiller if I get halides. I have fans built into my canopy to help with the heat. Are the fans not enough? Do I have to buy a chiller? Don't want to spend a ton of money for good lighting. Any suggestions?

SAWDUSTINTANK · Dec 7, 2014

What are you running now? One of my LFS' is running Kessil a360's and they provide some amazing shimmer! There are many reefers using the kessil units with great success. As far as the need for a chiller when running MH..... In my experience I ran two 150w DE halides along with 2 T5 39w bulbs over my tank which was 36"w x 30"d x 16"h. I did not have a canopy but I suspended the light fixture ~12" above the water line and I did not have heat issues at all. Certain factors played a role in that.
1. The light fixture was not enclosed so the heat can dissipate. Also the unit had a built in fan.
2. I live in South Florida and my AC unit runs year round. I keep the house between 73-75 degrees all year unless we have a major drop in temp during the winter. I don't even bother turning on the ac/heater at that point.
3. I only run a internal skimmer and internal return pump, so there is no additional heat sources.
4. I was only using two 150w MH bulbs. (14K Pheonix DE)
5. I only ran the MH for 6 hours a day and the T5 for 9-10 hours a day.

Somethings in my humble opinion that you may consider.
1. How many MH bulbs will you need to run and at what wattage. Some factors such as tank depth would have to be taken into consideration.
2. What temperature is your tank running at now with the lighting that you currently have.
3. Do you plan on adding more internal pumps that may or may not add heat to the water.
4. Is it possible that a local can let you borrow some MH units to try a test run.

I hope this helps and I hope others chime in to help you out. I have learned in the past when making a switch in major equipment its best to take your time and review all avenues before you invest in something only to regret it later. Good luck!

thejuggernaut · Dec 7, 2014

If you don't mind the added heat and electricity then I say there is still nothing better as far as look goes. As far as a chiller, I had twin 250 MH over my 120 in a closed up canopy and still had to run heaters. But I live in south Texas and we run AC year round and it is never about 73 in my house. I sweat really easy! lol

thejuggernaut · Dec 7, 2014

If you don't mind the added heat and electricity then I say there is still nothing better as far as look goes. As far as a chiller, I had twin 250 MH over my 120 in a closed up canopy and still had to run heaters. But I live in south Texas and we run AC year round and it is never about 73 in my house. I sweat really easy! lol

jayhawk · Dec 7, 2014

MH all the way. I bought a Vertex Illumina LED fixture for a hefty price and I switched back to MH. MH needs no adjustments. Select the photo-period and that's it. LED's tend to have too many variables that leave you experimenting for months. I have tried all kinds of things but go back to keeping things simple. I recommend a chiller. I think the Illinois winter will not utilize the chiller that much. The heat given off by the light should be offset by the room temperature unless you keep your thermostat in the higher range. Nights will likely require heater. You will need the chiller from the summer months. I like running a chiller in case the heater goes nuts, you will always have the chiller to make sure the temp doesn't boil the tank. IMO

Nemofan7998 · Dec 7, 2014

Wow that's a lot of info. Thanks to all of you! The heat issue is a huge problem as they would be inside of a canopy. Plus, I don't like the fact that the bulbs are pricey and have to be changed twice a year? The tank stays at 78 in winter and goes up to 80 in summer as it is, with the LEDs that i have. The leds don't add heat as the tank is the same temp with them on or off. Which is good, so I'm kinda leaning toward getting a better led system since my current light isn't sufficient for what I have in the tank. In fact, it's really meant for freshwater but I've been getting by barely. I want more softies in the tank so hence needing better lighting. The colors don't really come out either with the current light. I would love to have Kessils or Radions, but can't justify the hefty cost. It's a hobby for me, not a business. LOL. And I've been doing a lot of research on this and have been asking around for opinions as what to do. Thanks again for the great info that you all provided! :bigsmile:

Fin · Dec 7, 2014

I used a combination of two 250 watt MH and 4 T5s until a few years ago on my 140. I "had" an SPS tank. I will soon be going back to that combination. Tired of fiddling around with blue, royal, white, red, green and yellow LEDs. If you want softies and LPS, then yeah, I would stay with LEDs. To me, nothing grows colorful SPS like metal halide lighting though. I know my tank looks nothing like it used to, so I am going back to my old school ways. A very costly experiment, when I should have stayed with what I had.

I do still have my chiller, but when I had the same lights on my 75, I only ran fans in the canopy and on my sump. My 75 ran about 82Â° - 83Â° and there were no ill effects from temperature. Stuff was growing like weeds. So, it is not really always a necessity to have a chiller. It depends on how the lights affect your individual system.

Nemofan7998 · Dec 8, 2014

Fin said:
I used a combination of two 250 watt MH and 4 T5s until a few years ago on my 140. I "had" an SPS tank. I will soon be going back to that combination. Tired of fiddling around with blue, royal, white, red, green and yellow LEDs. If you want softies and LPS, then yeah, I would stay with LEDs. To me, nothing grows colorful SPS like metal halide lighting though. I know my tank looks nothing like it used to, so I am going back to my old school ways. A very costly experiment, when I should have stayed with what I had.

I do still have my chiller, but when I had the same lights on my 75, I only ran fans in the canopy and on my sump. My 75 ran about 82Â° - 83Â° and there were no ill effects from temperature. Stuff was growing like weeds. So, it is not really always a necessity to have a chiller. It depends on how the lights affect your individual system.

Thanks Fin for the info. I believe I will stick with LEDs, but get better ones. Maybe if I get a bigger tank someday, I will put Halides on it. I do believe though that Halides provide the best artificial sunlight available.

tigerdragon · Dec 8, 2014

hey nemo here is a pic of what we were talking about the tank on the right has the kessils

Nemofan7998 · Dec 9, 2014

tigerdragon said:
hey nemo here is a pic of what we were talking about the tank on the right has the kessils

They give off nice light! I am actually surprised they put out that much light for such a small package.

tigerdragon · Dec 9, 2014

Thats at 100% blue and 35-40% white

Av8Bluewater · Dec 9, 2014

I think the chiller may depend on your typical room temp and type of canopy. Open canopy or well ventilated /High summer room temps= chiller. Opposite home probably no chiller. Also throw in the choice of 400 watts will be hotter.
I live in Dallas but we keep the house cool so never needed a chiller when I had MH with open top canopy.

Av8Bluewater · Dec 9, 2014

I think the chiller may depend on your typical room temp and type of canopy. Open canopy or well ventilated /High summer room temps= chiller. Opposite home  probably no chiller. Also throw in the choice of 400 watts will be hotter. <br>I live in Dallas but we keep the house cool so never needed a chiller when I had MH with open top canopy. 
Someone else I knew here keeps his house very warm and needed a chiller.

wrestle1952 · Dec 10, 2014

I have used metal halides for years and tried LED for awhile. This is my take on LED's. They are getting better over time but still not there. Metal halide regardless of 14K, 20K, 10K, emit various light frequencies. They are a more complete light as the corals and fish receive more of what they get in nature. Of course you have to deal with heat and electrical cost. LED's emit specific frequency light frequency such as 460 nm etc. Think of us just eating apples, lettuce, mashed potatoes, and chicken, everyday, every meal. We would survive but would we flourish? The other thing about LED's is the spread. Again things are getting better BUT the light is focused to where it is pointed. Some of your corals get a specific frequency while other corals might get another. This may or may not be a good thing. Metal halide spread is far different as it emits similar wave lengths throughout the tank. Your corals then get a variety of wave lengths. Again think of humans having a variety of foods to eat. Think of your fish and how we are told to vary their diet but not corals under LED light. I don't have a tank right now. I have been looking into Red Sea Max (yes I am retired and don't have the energy I once had) or some of the Biocubes. Red Sea has a great explanation why they use T5's and not LED's at this time. Despite not having a tank I still research about the viability of LED's. We should also take a look at our horticulture brethren. LED's have been use over plants with mixed success (similar to aquariums) and many places have reverted back to MH or T5 to get the broader spectrum.