Switched Wall Outlet Question

skyrne_isk · Oct 28, 2019

So I am looking at the wall outlet behind by aquarium and getting ready to do an upgrade to four sockets (from the standard two). It's not that I will be pulling any additional power, but now that I am using a powerline adapter to keep my Apex "hardwired" I will need an extra outlet for just that device (I am currently on another wall with the powerline adapter and running a cord - gross, clutter). But here's the wrinkle: I just remembered that the top outlet is a switched outlet - which I am not looking to change.

Here's my question, if I update the wall socket to be four outlets, does that mean that the top two will now be switched? I am guessing yeah, but am not electrical savvy so I am asking.

Sinfullchef · Oct 28, 2019

skyrne_isk said:
So I am looking at the wall outlet behind by aquarium and getting ready to do an upgrade to four sockets (from the standard two). It's not that I will be pulling any additional power, but now that I am using a powerline adapter to keep my Apex "hardwired" I will need an extra outlet for just that device (I am currently on another wall with the powerline adapter and running a cord - gross, clutter). But here's the wrinkle: I just remembered that the top outlet is a switched outlet - which I am not looking to change.

Here's my question, if I update the wall socket to be four outlets, does that mean that the top two will now be switched? I am guessing yeah, but am not electrical savvy so I am asking.

Are you doing the wiring for the new outlet or is an electrician?

Onewolf · Oct 28, 2019

Sinfullchef said:
Are you doing the wiring for the new outlet or is an electrician?

Based on the question, I'm hoping an electrician does the rewire.

Assuming someone qualified does the rewire, there's no reason all 4 outlets could be switched, unswitched, or whatever permutation you would like.

skyrne_isk · Oct 28, 2019

Sinfullchef said:
Are you doing the wiring for the new outlet or is an electrician?

Me. I've replaced outlets many times, and put in ceiling fans and the like - just not replace a switched outlet.

skyrne_isk · Oct 28, 2019

Right now there is one of these giving me additional outlets. Been this way for years.

Sinfullchef · Oct 28, 2019

If one side is switched and the other is not, there is no reason you should not be able to make any combination of switched and un-switched outlets. the wires for the switched outlet run separate from the un-switched

skyrne_isk · Oct 28, 2019

Sinfullchef said:
If one side is switched and the other is not, there is no reason you should not be able to make any combination of switched and un-switched outlets. the wires for the switched outlet run separate from the un-switched

Cool. I'll be looking up a diagram then! Many thanks

William Mumford · Oct 28, 2019

The outlet has nothing to do with the switch the switch allows power to go to the plug switching the plug will be the same thing as you have now as long as you dont change anything.

skyrne_isk · Oct 28, 2019

William Mumford said:
The outlet has nothing to do with the switch the switch allows power to go to the plug switching the plug will be the same thing as you have now as long as you dont change anything.

I'm with you on that. I guess my point is that one of the outlets is currently wired to a switch, and I don't actually recall how/if wired outlets have implications for tying in the pigtails needed to add the additional outlet. That's what I'm not sure about.

Looks to me like the steps are (turn of the power and cut the drywall, etc for the new box)
1. Adding an extra ground the double junction box
2. Pigtailing the hot, neutral, and ground?
3. Reattach hot, neutral and ground to both boxes

So are you saying wiring of the switched outlet has no implication (assuming I want to continue to have one switched outlet)?

If so, this will be pretty easy.

JoshH · Oct 28, 2019

William Mumford said:
The outlet has nothing to do with the switch the switch allows power to go to the plug switching the plug will be the same thing as you have now as long as you dont change anything.

I think you may have misread his initial question. In this case the switch only controls the top outlet of the receptacle. Therefor it is absolutely NOT the same thing if he swaps the original one for a new one and adds a second. In this case (If the original receptacle is being replaced as well) the new receptacle will have to have the bridge tabs on either side of the plug removed. The non switched outlet on the bottom wired up with the appropritate non switched wires, the second receptacle pig tailed off of this. And the wires coming from the switch inserted into the top portion of the receptacle he wants to remain under switch control.

Also @skyrne_isk be sure to check your local/state building codes and ensure you adding an additional outlet isn't violating any codes. Most areas have a max number of "Fixtures" (Lights/receptacles) that are allowed on a circuit.

clm65 · Oct 28, 2019

All little more detail that may be helpful.... Receptacles usually come with both outlets connected together. That way you only need to provide a single hot, neutral, and ground wire for both outlets to work. On the "hot" side of the receptacle (which usually has darker screws), there is a metal tab connecting the top and bottom outlets. This tab gets broken off to allow half of the receptacle to operate independent of the other half. You want to connect your new receptacle to the half of the existing receptacle that is always powered. If any of this is confusing, post a picture of your receptacle and wiring, pulled out of the box (after opening the breaker). One of the folks here will be quick to help.

skyrne_isk · Oct 28, 2019

JoshH said:
I think you may have misread his initial question. In this case the switch only controls the top outlet of the receptical. Therefor it is absolutely NOT the same thing if he swaps the original one for a new one and adds a second. In this case (If the original receptical is being replaced as well) the new receptical will have to have the bridge tabs on either side of the plug removed. The non switched outlet on the bottom wired up with the appropritate non switched wires, the second receptical pig tailed off of this. And the wires coming from the switch inserted into the top portion of the receptical he wants to remain under switch control.

Also @skyrne_isk be sure to check your local/state building codes and ensure you adding an additional outlet isn't violating any codes. Most areas have a max number of "Fixtures" (Lights/recepticals) that are allowed on a circuit.

Yup, will do. That's good advice. We built this house, and there's actually a circuit diagram for the whole house out the garage on the wall. Won't be hard to count the number of outlets on the circuit.

And is the basic idea that I am pig tailing off the bottom outlet of the current outlet, as opposed to pig tailing off the wiring coming out of the wall? The plan was to keep the original outlet in place and simply add another with a double junction box.

Don't know what you mean about bridge tabs, will have to look that up.

skyrne_isk · Oct 28, 2019

skyrne_isk said:
Don't know what you mean about bridge tabs, will have to look that up.

Just read the post before mine, I see it about the tabs. Cool. That's super helpful and I understand.

JoshH · Oct 28, 2019

skyrne_isk said:
Yup, will do. That's good advice. We built this house, and there's actually a circuit diagram for the whole house out the garage on the wall. Won't be hard to count the number of outlets on the circuit.

And is the basic idea that I am pig tailing off the bottom outlet of the current outlet, as opposed to pig tailing off the wiring coming out of the wall? The plan was to keep the original outlet in place and simply add another with a double junction box.

Don't know what you mean about bridge tabs, will have to look that up.

This is a "Bridge Tab" as I call them anyway... on your outlet right now these will be removed. If you are keeping the original outlet then yes, all you will be doing is pig tailing off the bottom outlet and wiring your new receptacle to those wires feeding it.

KrisReef · Oct 28, 2019

skyrne_isk said:
Yup, will do. That's good advice. We built this house, and there's actually a circuit diagram for the whole house out the garage on the wall. Won't be hard to count the number of outlets on the circuit.

And is the basic idea that I am pig tailing off the bottom outlet of the current outlet, as opposed to pig tailing off the wiring coming out of the wall? The plan was to keep the original outlet in place and simply add another with a double junction box.

Don't know what you mean about bridge tabs, will have to look that up.

Sounds like you have the basic idea.

The switched side has a switch loop wired into the socket. I’d use a camera and take a photo ofthe wiring to avoid mix ups.
Pigtails from the bottom over to the new outlets

William Mumford · Oct 28, 2019

JoshH said:
I think you may have misread his initial question. In this case the switch only controls the top outlet of the receptacle. Therefor it is absolutely NOT the same thing if he swaps the original one for a new one and adds a second. In this case (If the original receptacle is being replaced as well) the new receptacle will have to have the bridge tabs on either side of the plug removed. The non switched outlet on the bottom wired up with the appropritate non switched wires, the second receptacle pig tailed off of this. And the wires coming from the switch inserted into the top portion of the receptacle he wants to remain under switch control.

Also @skyrne_isk be sure to check your local/state building codes and ensure you adding an additional outlet isn't violating any codes. Most areas have a max number of "Fixtures" (Lights/receptacles) that are allowed on a circuit.

Most definitely did read incorrectly. Thank you. You are 100% right.