Switching from biopellets to chaeto

[Codym808]

Hey guys,

I'm currently running a reef dynamics biopellet reactor but would like to change over to a chaeto reactor for a more natural approach to reefing. My tank is a 40 breeder with 20 gal sump, totaling to about 55 gallons of system water. My tank is a mixed reef leaning more towards a sps dominant tank.

My question is, since I don't have much more space in my cabinet to run both a biopellet reactor and chaeto reactor at the same time while making the transition, do any of you have any suggestion how I should go about doing this transition without crashing my tank? The acro's are the most important to me and they're hard to come by in my area so I'd like to minimize any losses. Please help with any feedback on how I should go about this process. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advanced!!

 

[mcarroll]

First I'd try decommissioning the pellet reactor. Remove pellets little by little over a month or so until they're gone.

If you still want to add chaeto, you can re-use that reactor, or maybe you'll find that you don't even need it – you'll get a chance to see.

What are your current/recent NO3 and PO4 numbers like? Do you dose any nutrients?

 

[Codym808]

First I'd try decommissioning the pellet reactor. Remove pellets little by little over a month or so until they're gone.

If you still want to add chaeto, you can re-use that reactor, or maybe you'll find that you don't even need it – you'll get a chance to see.

What are your current/recent NO3 and PO4 numbers like? Do you dose any nutrients?

I actually did try decommissioning my bio-pellet reactor by slowing the outlet flow over a period of 2 months (its a recirculating reactor) and then my sps began to show signs of being unhappy, lost one acropora. Checked my number during that time and i had nitrates over 30 ppm and phosphates of about 0.5 ppm. I got scared of losing anymore acros so I did a large water change and turned the outlet flow back up on my bio-pellet reactor.

I'm pretty sure I need to use a different reactor as a recirculating one doesn't seem to be a good choice for chaeto.

Currently my numbers are back in check, nitrates of about 5 ppm and phosphates near 0. I'm currently not dosing any nutrients unless I need to bring my numbers back up, which I have only done 2-3 times.

 

[mcarroll]

Reducing the number of pellets should reduce the carbon level in the system. I do not think reducing the flow rate achieves the same goal. You would have to tell me if it's worth trying again by reducing pellets, but if you want to try I would do it slowly, maybe starting with 1/4, and allow a week or two (at least) before you remove more.

Your live rock, algae, etc will have to pick up the slack, so it could be that you have to go slower than us to allow them to catch up. It stands to reason that Systems carbon ratio may be a little out of whack for a while, which can cause nitrogen and phosphorus to stop being consumed. Make sure the rock is set up for optimal flow, do any cleanup that might be necessary to help, including beefing up the cleanup crew and making any flow improvements that you've been saving up for, etc.

And if your space is that cramped, maybe consider an ATS instead?

 

[Codym808]

Reducing the number of pellets should reduce the carbon level in the system. I do not think reducing the flow rate achieves the same goal. You would have to tell me if it's worth trying again by reducing pellets, but if you want to try I would do it slowly, maybe starting with 1/4, and allow a week or two (at least) before you remove more.

Your live rock, algae, etc will have to pick up the slack, so it could be that you have to go slower than us to allow them to catch up. It stands to reason that Systems carbon ratio may be a little out of whack for a while, which can cause nitrogen and phosphorus to stop being consumed. Make sure the rock is set up for optimal flow, do any cleanup that might be necessary to help, including beefing up the cleanup crew and making any flow improvements that you've been saving up for, etc.

And if your space is that cramped, maybe consider an ATS instead?

Thanks for all the input you have given me, I just wanted some guidance for taking this next step which you have been providing.

Currently my biopellet reactor starting to run low on biopellets at this point, maybe about 1/2 cup left in the reactor but I guess even that amount contributes a large amount to the carbon source in my system. Would it be beneficial to run the chaeto reactor along with the biopellet reactor at the same to help with the reduction of excess nitrogen and phosphorous? I could temporarily locate the chaeto reactor outside of my sump area with the intention of relocating it in the place of the biopellet reactor once its completely offline.

My tank is a bare bottom running a gyre so flow is more than covered and I am overloaded on trochus snails because they keep breeding! I'd prefer to go with the chaeto reactor over the ATS because I'm OCD on the layout and organization of my sump, it just fits my needs for space more (if you get what I'm saying). In the end I'm trying to make the switch without losing any of my prized acro's as they are hard to come by in my area. Would running the new chaeto reactor along with more waterchanges ease the transition and system stabilization during this process? Again thank you so much, you're help is much appreciated.

 

[mcarroll]

Checked my number during that time and i had nitrates over 30 ppm and phosphates of about 0.5 ppm. I got scared of losing anymore acros

I forgot to ask: did your corals actually seem to react, or was it just the numbers making you nervous? What reactions were you seeing in your corals?

I'm pretty sure I need to use a different reactor as a recirculating one doesn't seem to be a good choice for chaeto.

Can't you simply block the recirulation so it's all flow-through? (I'm asking, not telling....I'm not sure.)

I'd prefer to go with the chaeto reactor over the ATS because I'm OCD on the layout and organization of my sump, it just fits my needs for space more (if you get what I'm saying).

At least hypothetically, an ATS should be even more flexible in terms of space-utilization when placed inside the sump than a reactor. Did I already see a pic of your sump? (please? )

Would it be beneficial to run the chaeto reactor along with the biopellet reactor at the same to help with the reduction of excess nitrogen and phosphorous?

That's a different avenue, but that would almost surely work. You miss out on the phase where you get to see what happens in between carbon-source and algae is all.

It could be a little trickier to manage nutrients that way – do not let PO4 or NO3 drop too quickly. Rising should be OK as long as it's slow....

In the end I'm trying to make the switch without losing any of my prized acro's

The secret here is just to make any changes SMALL and to space them out over plenty of TIME.

• Don't try to add more nutrient reduction – aim for stable. Phase one out while the other is being phased in.
• Don't try to just take the bio-pellets offline – aim for stable. Phase them out by removing (e.g.) a quarter at a time every few weeks until there's none left.
• Don't just follow my advice – aim for stable. Slow down even more if you see too big of a reaction.
• I always plan on these things taking lots of time....success doesn't come overnight, rome wasn't built in a day, etc. Months for something like this.
• And remember that you're not shooting for a "clean looking" tank, just one where algae isn't blooming out of control. "Some" algae is good....especially when it's just hair or film algae.

Generally, there aren't too many circumstances that call for any more rushed or drastic action that this...in most cases the algae is ugly....but it's actually helping the tank. To get in the tank and mess around more in that case is just further disturbance and a setback. You really want to work through it if possible, not defeat it.

 

[Codym808]

I forgot to ask: did your corals actually seem to react, or was it just the numbers making you nervous? What reactions were you seeing in your corals?

My LPS and softies were perfectly fine throughout the raise in nutrients but some of my SPS is the ones who showed signs. My monti confusa had no polyps extension and its normal green color had more of a matte look to it. Also my red dragon acro bleached out over night which caused me to test my tank, that is when I found out my nitrates were over 30 ppm.

At least hypothetically, an ATS should be even more flexible in terms of space-utilization when placed inside the sump than a reactor. Did I already see a pic of your sump? (please? )

Honestly I'm mostly being biased towards the cheat reactor because its something fairly new and I like the look of reactors, they look more high tech haha and I'd like to use it in the place of the biopellet reactor. Here's my sump; I have a peninsula tank so the water starts at the filter sock, makes a U at the skimmer, and then is pumped back up to the display.

The secret here is just to make any changes SMALL and to space them out over plenty of TIME.

• Don't try to add more nutrient reduction – aim for stable. Phase one out while the other is being phased in.
• Don't try to just take the bio-pellets offline – aim for stable. Phase them out by removing (e.g.) a quarter at a time every few weeks until there's none left.
• Don't just follow my advice – aim for stable. Slow down even more if you see too big of a reaction.
• I always plan on these things taking lots of time....success doesn't come overnight, rome wasn't built in a day, etc. Months for something like this.
• And remember that you're not shooting for a "clean looking" tank, just one where algae isn't blooming out of control. "Some" algae is good....especially when it's just hair or film algae.

Generally, there aren't too many circumstances that call for any more rushed or drastic action that this...in most cases the algae is ugly....but it's actually helping the tank. To get in the tank and mess around more in that case is just further disturbance and a setback. You really want to work through it if possible, not defeat it.

As you've said, the word "phase" is a good way to describing my intentions, to phase out the biopellet reactor while slowly bringing on some types of more natural filtration. I'll take the biopellets out slowly and be sure to test and keep up with water changes to keep down my nutrients. The last thing I want to do is crash my tank after all the hard work that has gone into it. Truthfully my tank has a bubble algae problem that I'm trying to deal with, not sure if that affects any of the advice you've given. Again, thank you so much for all your help!!!

 

[mcarroll]

I actually did try decommissioning my bio-pellet reactor by slowing the outlet flow over a period of 2 months (its a recirculating reactor) and then my sps began to show signs of being unhappy, lost one acropora. Checked my number during that time and i had nitrates over 30 ppm and phosphates of about 0.5 ppm.

I think I forgot to ask: What were nutrient levels like prior to this? (I was looking at the bio-pellets AND the marine pure blocks...)

Can you also post a recent full tank shot? Some algae closeups are welcome too.

(Maybe PM if you want since we're veering offtopic of this thread.....send more info on the nutrient history of the tank and a recent set of test results when you do.)

Bubble algae is one of the kinds that I really try not to worry about when possible. Mostly be cause it's very cool looking (a German book I have calls it "the jewel of the reef" ) and most algae are so boring – and having some algae is good! Bubble algae is always very well behaved for me and just comes and goes with the available nutrients. I've actually got some amazing pictures of bubble algae!!

Honestly I'm mostly being biased towards the cheat reactor because its something fairly new and I like the look

Just to play devil's advocate one more time...

Seems like with the two-sided stand, having an ATS over the middle section would be at least a little bit ideal vs the reactor. You regain the floor space and sump access than the reactor blocks. The ATS's narrow edge is what faces you, so there's no more space taken than the reactor, but it's up off the ground, suspended over the sump – either under the little stub canister in the pic or in place of it.

Food for thought.

And I also forgot to mention that I was a huge Euro-Reef/Reef Dynamics fan back in the day....that is the sweetest pellet reactor I've seen still to this day. (I'm just not a fan of pellets....LOL)

 

[Codym808]

PM sent, thanks again for your help!

If anyone else has any info or experience they'd like to chime in, feel free to do so too! We can keep this thread going for others who have the same intentions as I do.

 

[ksed]

You would need far more space with chaeto in a simp vs bio pellet reactor. Simply because you would need more chaeto than biopellets to accomplish relatively the same removal.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I removed my Reef Dynamics Bio Pellet reactor, just pulled it completely out and my SPS actually started doing better. You did not make any light program changes or have an alk swing?

 

[Codym808]

I removed my Reef Dynamics Bio Pellet reactor, just pulled it completely out and my SPS actually started doing better. You did not make any light program changes or have an alk swing?

I'd like to try pulling it completely but I'm scared to crash the tank as I've been running this reactor for over a year now..

I didn't make any light changes but I did noticed my alk starting to climb so I slowed down my dosing.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I'd like to try pulling it completely but I'm scared to crash the tank as I've been running this reactor for over a year now..

I didn't make any light changes but I did noticed my alk starting to climb so I slowed down my dosing.

if you only have a small fish load and bare bottom cut your feedings down. Last time I checked my nitrates without the pellets they were still very low. I am installing an ATS but my system is over 300 gallons

 

[Codym808]

if you only have a small fish load and bare bottom cut your feedings down. Last time I checked my nitrates without the pellets they were still very low. I am installing an ATS but my system is over 300 gallons

I have 4 anthias, 1 kole tang, 1 royal gramma, and 1 bangaii cardinal. I do feed twice a day to keep my anthias and tang happy but I could reduce the amount being fed. I would like to ween off the biopellets and phase in some type of algae filtration simultaneously.

I'm just nervous and scared of what to do in case I come across any problems.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I can only give my opinion but on a 40 gallon first thing I would check are the test kits, then source water. You said the reactor is low on pellets, just remove reactor and keep nitrates down by doing water changes. I pulled mine because it kept getting clogged. Right now all I am using is a sulfur denittrator but that may come off when I install ATS. I don't know if anyone will tell you what you should do only their own experiences because every system is different. Any changes you make is always at your own risk as some people have problems with large water changes.

 

[Codym808]

I can only give my opinion but on a 40 gallon first thing I would check are the test kits, then source water. You said the reactor is low on pellets, just remove reactor and keep nitrates down by doing water changes. I pulled mine because it kept getting clogged. Right now all I am using is a sulfur denittrator but that may come off when I install ATS. I don't know if anyone will tell you what you should do only their own experiences because every system is different. Any changes you make is always at your own risk as some people have problems with large water changes.

Correct, I only have 1/2 cup of biopellets in the reactor so I didn't think it was much but mcarroll said the available carbon in the system is not balanced. I'm not sure if they can cause a crash or if water changes will be enough to maintain and allow the tank to stabilize.

I was thinking to pull the biopellets and put an ATS or chaeto reactor online to help with bringing the nitrates down while doing more water changes. Any thoughts on going about the change over that way?

Thank you for chiming in your experiences and thoughts, much appreciated. I just would like to hear how people have gone about doing this big change.

 

[Codym808]

Another question I have that maybe someone else could answer for me please,
If I remove my bio-pellets (remember I only have 1/2 cup left in my reactor w/ the outlet flow at about 50%) will there be enough of a carbon deficiency to cause a tank crash or rtn of my sps? If so, is there something I can do to remedy this problem until my system stabilizes or will the system most likely be fine after pulling the bio-pellets offline completely?

 

[mcarroll]

If I remove my bio-pellets (remember I only have 1/2 cup left in my reactor w/ the outlet flow at about 50%) will there be enough of a carbon deficiency to cause a tank crash or rtn of my sps?

Is "carbon defficiency" something you've heard of actually happening before? Carbon levels tend to be naturally at the correct level – not a problem. Elevated carbon levels tend to be where all the problems are. Thanks to plentiful CO2 and lots of critters having carbonic anhydrase at their metabolic disposal, carbon being too low isn't typically a problem....at least as far as I'm aware.

Stay aware of your N and P levels during the transition – these parameters are where problems can come in. Particularly if you let P get down to zero....but it's not great for N to be at zero either. I would not worry as much about nutrients going up – that can be addressed with more water changes and more herbivores, reducing livestock, etc.

 

[Codym808]

Is "carbon defficiency" something you've heard of actually happening before? Carbon levels tend to be naturally at the correct level – not a problem. Elevated carbon levels tend to be where all the problems are. Thanks to plentiful CO2 and lots of critters having carbonic anhydrase at their metabolic disposal, carbon being too low isn't typically a problem....at least as far as I'm aware.

No, "carbon deficiency" is not something I've heard of but just something that has crossed my mind. You hit the answer to my question spot on as I'm just trying to prepare myself for any problems I may come across during this transition. So again, thank you for all the help and advice you have provided me! Much appreciated

Stay aware of your N and P levels during the transition – these parameters are where problems can come in. Particularly if you let P get down to zero....but it's not great for N to be at zero either. I would not worry as much about nutrients going up – that can be addressed with more water changes and more herbivores, reducing livestock, etc.

I'll be sure to test more frequently while keeping up with water changes during this transition, my main concern was if water changes would be enough to help my tank through this period.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

So whats the consensus here? Phase out one while phasing in the other or taking one offline while adding the other? My issue is, I've been running pellets for around a year, yet my nitrates are around 50..with NO fish currently in the tank, just inverts and coral. I was using Red Sea kits and the nitrates were testing 2-5 ppm. I brought it to a store I trust, twice and they tested it at 50-80 ppm (with two kits. Saifert and API). Even my effluent is testing around 40. Weird thing is, I never really thought to check it somewhere else because my coral seemed OK.