Switching from LED to hybrid HELP.

[stevenlu]

Hello guys,

I currently run my Radions at 95 percent and am looking to switch to Aquatic Life t5 LED hybrid.

How much lower should I lower my lights? Will it shock my corals?

Thanks alot

Steven

 

[Octane13]

I was wondering the same. Mine is being delivered today so I want to set it up ASAP. I think my current plan is to use acclimation mode for 7-10 days with a starting intensity of 80% or so...

 

[mcarroll]

Use a light meter to determine that...simply try to keep levels as similar as possible.

(Lux meter apps are free. An real #lux meter is <$20. That's all you need at minimum. Click that hashtag.)

 

[stevenlu]

I was wondering the same. Mine is being delivered today so I want to set it up ASAP. I think my current plan is to use acclimation mode for 7-10 days with a starting intensity of 80% or so...

Yeah I think to know the par is probably the best lol. But even that the difference between T5 and LED lights might shock the corals?

 

[stevenlu]

Use a light meter to determine that...simply try to keep levels as similar as possible.

(Lux meter apps are free. An real #lux meter is <$20. That's all you need at minimum. Click that hashtag.)

Thanks dude. Have you just used lux meters all this time?

 

[mcarroll]

So far!

 

[jda]

Did you get 2 bulb or 4? You need to change your thinking just a bit... the T5 are now static... run them for your whole photo period and count on them to do their job. Use the Radions to fill in with more PAR, highlights and perhaps some after hours viewing if you like the blacklight look. You cannot manipulate the T5s, so just let them work.

The T5 are not harmful to corals in 4x configuration. I would cut the Radions in half, or less and go from there with a 4 bulb.. maybe cut them by 1/3 with a 2 bulb. Of course a PAR meter would be better, but this is a good guess without one. You cannot cut the Radions too much and you can always ramp them back up... 4 bulb T5 can handle most corals except for the highest light demanding ones so you have some time to dial the Radions back up.

If you do get a PAR meter, remember that T5 bulbs will have more light for the registered PAR number on the meter that the sensor cannot capture. The Radions will have output nearly all in the range that the sensor will capture. For example, 200 PAR from T5 is more light than 200 PAR from LEDs.

 

[stevenlu]

Did you get 2 bulb or 4? You need to change your thinking just a bit... the T5 are now static... run them for your whole photo period and count on them to do their job. Use the Radions to fill in with more PAR, highlights and perhaps some after hours viewing if you like the blacklight look. You cannot manipulate the T5s, so just let them work.

The T5 are not harmful to corals in 4x configuration. I would cut the Radions in half, or less and go from there with a 4 bulb.. maybe cut them by 1/3 with a 2 bulb. Of course a PAR meter would be better, but this is a good guess without one. You cannot cut the Radions too much and you can always ramp them back up... 4 bulb T5 can handle most corals except for the highest light demanding ones so you have some time to dial the Radions back up.

If you do get a PAR meter, remember that T5 bulbs will have more light for the registered PAR number on the meter that the sensor cannot capture. The Radions will have output nearly all in the range that the sensor will capture. For example, 200 PAR from T5 is more light than 200 PAR from LEDs.

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. Very much appreciated. That’s what I was thinking too. I do have a sps dominant tank. Top is around 600 par with radions when I tested.

You’re right, I should probably do half to start with and test along the way. I never knew that t5 has more light then the PAR meter could read. Now I need to put that into consideration.

I am getting the 4x t5 fixture. Thanks a lot for you input!

 

[jda]

The older PAR meters will start to miss a lot of output at 420nm, and below. The newer ones will do well down to 400nm. T5 bulbs do put out some UV that the sensors cannot read. This is not as large of a percentage as MH are, but it is still something... and details matter. Remember that the lower nm lighting has more energy, so do not discount the UV from 350-400nm which is very useful in both photosynthesis and illumination. When you see colors improve by adding the T5s, the true UV (not Violet that is advertised wrongly by LED manufactures as UV) will be part of the reason why.

Something like an actinic might be 10% more light... B+ 5-8% more... not all of the light in the world or anything, but something to keep in mind. Some MH can be 20% more. Some people shy away from True Actinic bulbs because the PAR is lower than a Coral Plus or Blue Plus, when in actuality, it is just a problem with the sensor reading the bulb.

Good luck.

 

[stevenlu]

The older PAR meters will start to miss a lot of output at 420nm, and below. The newer ones will do well down to 400nm. T5 bulbs do put out some UV that the sensors cannot read. This is not as large of a percentage as MH are, but it is still something... and details matter. Remember that the lower nm lighting has more energy, so do not discount the UV from 350-400nm which is very useful in both photosynthesis and illumination. When you see colors improve by adding the T5s, the true UV (not Violet that is advertised wrongly by LED manufactures as UV) will be part of the reason why.

Something like an actinic might be 10% more light... B+ 5-8% more... not all of the light in the world or anything, but something to keep in mind. Some MH can be 20% more. Some people shy away from True Actinic bulbs because the PAR is lower than a Coral Plus or Blue Plus, when in actuality, it is just a problem with the sensor reading the bulb.

Good luck.

Thanks a lot again for the knowledge! So I did get 2 coral plus and 2 blue plus bulbs. Do you think they would be the best to show off coral colors? Or should I switch to actinitic?

What’s your suggestion? The reason why I switched to t5 led hybrid is because I feel like the LEDs can pull those deep colors out of corals. For example my WD has pink tips while WD grown under t5 get that deep purple.

What do you think the 4 bulbs should be for my hybrid?

Thank you so much!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. Very much appreciated. That’s what I was thinking too. I do have a sps dominant tank. Top is around 600 par with radions when I tested.

You’re right, I should probably do half to start with and test along the way. I never knew that t5 has more light then the PAR meter could read. Now I need to put that into consideration.

I am getting the 4x t5 fixture. Thanks a lot for you input!

A t5 doesn’t have more light than a par meter can read.
That is factually incorrect.
It reads the full visible spectrum.

 

[jda]

Thanks for being argumentative Salty, it is super helpful. Show me a PAR meter sensor that reads 350-400 nm, or are you being argumentative over the definition of "light?" In any case, there are WAVELENGTHS that a PAR meter cannot read that a T5 will emit that are helpful to nearly all zoox that a PAR meter cannot read.

As for bulbs, it is totally up to you, but 2x C+ and 2x B+ is what is run on my favorite T5 tank - Eds. He overdrive them with a VHO ballast, but still the same bulbs. You cannot really go wrong with any good quality T5 bulb.

 

[DSC reef]

Thanks for being argumentative Salty, it is super helpful. Show me a PAR meter sensor that reads 350-400 nm, or are you being argumentative over the definition of "light?" In any case, there are WAVELENGTHS that a PAR meter cannot read that a T5 will emit that are helpful to nearly all zoox that a PAR meter cannot read.

As for bulbs, it is totally up to you, but 2x C+ and 2x B+ is what is run on my favorite T5 tank - Eds. He overdrive them with a VHO ballast, but still the same bulbs. You cannot really go wrong with any good quality T5 bulb.

How does ones knowledge and opinion make him argumentative? I'd trust saltys info anyday.

 

[Punchanello]

My observation is that my corals seem less sensitive to increases in power from T5 light than to increases in power from LEDs. That's a totally unscientific observation but I use an ATI LED Powermodule hybrid and keep the LEDs at about 50%. Whenever I have increased the output of the LEDs they have initially caused my corals to retract or look unhappy. I have ramped up my T5s (dimmable) at a similar rate and don't get the the same reaction. Ultimately I'm sure the corals acclimate to both just find but I feel like you need to take additional care to acclimate under LED at the start , while T5 is a bit more forgiving.

If I was in your situation I would reduce my LED power by 25-50% and run the T5 as you intend to run them from there on. I just haven't witnessed my corals respond poorly from going straight from zero T5 to 4 bulbs.

 

[mcarroll]

I never knew that t5 has more light then the PAR meter could read. Now I need to put that into consideration.

I think that reference is to light < 400nm and > 700 nm that a T5 hypotheticall emits (depending on bulb) but which a standard PAR sensor does not measure.

It's useful to remember that our light measurements are approximations, even with top-notch meters. A lot due to the way we test and a lot due to the reasons we test. But also due to the equipment we use for testing. Light in water is really complicated to measure with a lot of precision!

I would continue using the measurements you take as the simple approximations they are and not try to worry about precision.

But if you must....

These few links will give you a sense of things and equip you to go forward into comlexity if you want....

• The in situ light microenvironment of corals
• Flicker Light Effects on Photosynthesis of Symbiotic Algae in the Reef- Building Coral Acropora digitifera (Cnidaria: Anthozoa: Scleractinia).
• Ocean Optics by Curtis Mobley
• Feature Article: How Much Light?! Analyses of Selected Shallow Water Invertebrates' Light Requirements by @Dana Riddle

 

[mcarroll]

I just haven't witnessed my corals respond poorly from going straight from zero T5 to 4 bulbs.

What was the defore/after difference in PAR or lux at the water surface?

 

[Punchanello]

What was the defore/after difference in PAR or lux at the water surface?

I couldn't say tbh.

I recently had a malfunction with my Powermodule (probably user error). I had to get a replacement control unit which took 3 weeks. To cover me in the meantime a local reefer lent me some black box LEDs.

All my LPS were at least somewhat retracted during that period and a lot of my sps browned out. Not sure if it was necessarily the LEDs probably just the shock or not enough light.

When I got the powermodule running again I started with just the LEDs at 30% which to my eyes was still significantly brighter that the black boxes. My LPS seemed to retract even more. I ramped up slowly but saw little improvement. So I said fudge it turned the LEDs off and ran only T5 and saw an almost instant improvement. Since then I've slowly increased the LEDs to about 50-60% and all is well.

Like I said, unscientific and a lot of factors involved but I feel like the more diffused the light is the more wriggle room when acclimating. When I add new corals I tend to only ramp down the LEDs and most seem to be comfortable with the T5s at 100% very quickly. Not sure the same would be the case with a 6 or 8x 80 watt fixture though.