System Check Up

JSB · Mar 18, 2012

This is going to be a long post (read 2-parts due to size limitations), so thanks in advance for sticking with it. I am not having great success with some of my corals, and am looking for some advice.

While not new to reefing, I am new to SPS, and that is mostly where I am having my issues. This is a relatively new tank (4.5 months). It is a 60 cube, with a 15g sump, 45# live rock, and 45# of sand, so when all is said and done, it has about 60 gallons of water volume.

I have a scopas, watchman goby, Bartlett's Anthias and 4 blue/green chromis. I feed Rod's, or something homemade like it most days (plus a little nori).

I have a 1000gph return pump (no name) and two Vortech MP10s for flow. Also, I have a Radion LED, that is supposed to be the equal of a single 250W MH, that I run at 20KK and ramp up and down over the course of the day, with a 6-hour period @100%, with 2-hours or so on either side at 70%, and a couple of actinic hours in the evening.

I have a media reactor with a little over 1 cup of carbon, changed monthly. I have a BP reactor running a half cup of bio-pellets that has been online for a month now, so not yet dialed in. I dose alk, mag, and calc, using dosing pumps, and have had a difficult getting calcium up while keeping alk from going sky high. Balanced dosing does not accomplish this. I have an ASM G1-X skimmer rated for 150g, and run a 100mm filter sock. I also run an ATO keeping salinity swings in check. I do a minimum 10% weekly water change using Red Sea Coral Pro, but just recently switched to Reef Crystals on H@rry's recommendation, and stopped chasing pH on Mike's recommendation.

In the last month only, I have actually begun to see some coraline begin in earnest, so hopefully, that is a good sign.

Now on to part two...

JSB · Mar 18, 2012

My current params are:
Temp 80, Orp 358, Salinity 35.9, pH 7.87, PO4 .03, NO3 4ppm, Ca 430, Mag 1450, Alk 8.7

My 30-day average or range has been
Temp 78-81, Orp 330-390, Salinity 34-35.9 (temp dependent), pH 8.03, PO4 .03, NO3 4ppm, Ca 290-430, Mag 1200-1450, ALk 8.7-11.9

So, on to what's working:
Xenia, on the bottom pulsing, full and swaying. Palys and zoos, bottom third, expanding and growing. GSP, middle back, growing like neon green weeds. All the fish are fantastic, w/ no aggression. Mushrooms, feather dusters, emerald crabs, blue legs, red legs, snails, peppermint shrimp all fine.

So on to what is iffy. My once full frogspawn now does not extend quite as far. My monti caps, while somewhat alive, are all colorless, except one Alabama Grape, regardless of what color they started. My pink diveracata, purple austera, and garf bonsai all seem stuck in limbo, and my red planet is now a pale green and purple. My pearl berry has purple tips and shows growth, but the base is bleached.

And now to what is failing. My no-name tort, pocillapora damacornis, pink birds nest, and a few others simply hung on for a bit, then RTN'd. My green slimmers, despite their initial success, never extend and are a pale color (likely deceased). Also, one of the first things I had in the tank was a fiji yellow (s. elegans) that never ever fully opened and continued to decline over the last three months. It is now pruned up tiny and dropped behind a rock.

I know there are likely multiple issues at play here, but I don't know exactly what to do. My first step is to lock in my Ca/Alk/Mag very tight. If you read all the way to here, then maybe you saw something and said "Hold on there Buckaroo! You should _________". If you did so, I would greatly appreciate your input.

JSB · Mar 18, 2012

Oh, and part three... I have two of 15 ricordea that are turning translucent. They are small, like 20% the size of the average ric that I have. All of the larger ones are doing great.

Tomoko Schum · Mar 18, 2012

I cannot stress enough about the stability of water parameters when it comes to SPS's. Your values show quite a bit of swings in alkalinity and calcium. That's probably the major cause of your SPS RTN problem.

I would try to control alkalinity more tightly. Calcium is typically pretty solid and does not fluctuate much unless you cause a bad precipitation event. You said that you had a problem keeping Ca up. Are you sure that your Ca reading is correct? What calcium test kit are you using?
Magnesium is important to keep your calcium level stable, but a fluctuation between 1200 and 1450 should not cause any problem.

How are you acclimating your SPS frags to your light? Do you start your coral near the bottom of your tank? When people started switching MH lamps with LED's a few years ago, those who had powerful Cree LED's like AquaIllumination's fixture complained bleaching issue with their SPS's. They suspected that their LED light was more intense than equivalent metal halides. You may be able to search RC and dig up some old threads about the issue.

As for your yellow toadstool, I remember that some of those yellow sarcophyton are notorious for not tolerating fragging while other similar yellow toadstool species did fine. I don't know which one is which, but it may not be your fault after all if yours keels over.

Your ricordea issue is a mystery to me. Mushrooms including ricordeas tend to shrink when exposed to a very strong light suddenly, but I never had one turn translucent.

Some SPS people insist on PO4 less than 0.02 ppm and NO3 near zero. Biopellets or vodka along with GFO can help you achieve these parameters.

H@rry · Mar 18, 2012

I don't know what to tell you except I never had good luck dosing the 2 or 3 part chemicals. I have tried it in the past and the numbers kept see-sawing up and down. Other people seem to do alright with it so I can't say what the difference was. What I have found is running a calcium reactor seems to keep everybody happy. If my calcium reactor maintains the alk, then the calcium and mag fall into place. I never check PO4 & NO3. I know there's some there because algae keeps growing on the glass but I don't know what I would do different if I checked them. Minimum water changes weekly just to replenish trace elements. Carbon 24/7 changed monthly. Temps range from 76.8 - 81.8 on a daily basis. Skimmers not the best in the world but the price was right.

I suspect there might be some trace elements in the CR media that are being released into the system that the coral benefit from.

If I were you I would get a CR, put a pH probe in it connected to a controller and set it to maintain the internal pH to achieve whatever alk you want. See if that helps. Sounds like the main difference between my tanks and yours is the CR, bio-pellets, and lighting. Do you have a electrical ground probe?

JSB · Mar 18, 2012

Tomoko Schum said:
I cannot stress enough about the stability of water parameters when it comes to SPS's. Your values show quite a bit of swings in alkalinity and calcium. That's probably the major cause of your SPS RTN problem.

I would try to control alkalinity more tightly.

I agree whole heartedly. I kept pushing alk up trying to get pH up and it got high fast. I brought it back down, allowing only a one point swing lately, but I think the damage was done.

Tomoko Schum said:
Calcium is typically pretty solid and does not fluctuate much unless you cause a bad precipitation event. You said that you had a problem keeping Ca up. Are you sure that your Ca reading is correct? What calcium test kit are you using?

I am using the Red Sea test kits. Based on recommendations, and cost, I can only assume that they are accurate.

Tomoko Schum said:
How are you acclimating your SPS frags to your light? Do you start your coral near the bottom of your tank? When people started switching MH lamps with LED's a few years ago, those who had powerful Cree LED's like AquaIllumination's fixture complained bleaching issue with their SPS's. They suspected that their LED light was more intense than equivalent metal halides.

I generally put the corals at or lower than there final destination, and then reducing the light intensity to 50%. Then I raise the level by 10% weekly. Yours that I added today, I put at the bottom and will work up, as they other way just doesn't seem to work for me.

Tomoko Schum said:
As for your yellow toadstool, I remember that some of those yellow sarcophyton are notorious for not tolerating fragging while other similar yellow toadstool species did fine. I don't know which one is which, but it may not be your fault after all if yours keels over.

Well, I tried a half dozen different way to try to get it to attach, but for the 4 months I've had it, it has never been in one spot more than a week or two. I may have just aggravated it to death.

Tomoko Schum said:
Your ricordea issue is a mystery to me. Mushrooms including ricordeas tend to shrink when exposed to a very strong light suddenly, but I never had one turn translucent.

Tomoko Schum said:
It is only two, and those immediately adjacent to them are fine. They have been there for months, and most are growing and expanding. I just don't know.

Tomoko Schum said:

Some SPS people insist on PO4 less than 0.02 ppm and NO3 near zero. Biopellets or vodka along with GFO can help you achieve these parameters.

Click to expand...

I removed the GFO for the time that I was dialing in the bio pellets, but intend to put them back afterwards. That was the reason for adding them in the first place.

So what I take from your critique, and let me say I really appreciate you taking the time to give it, I hope that I am now on the right track. I have gotten, I hope, the alk/mag/calc back on track, but time will tell. Also, I am taking the steps to control NO3 and PO4. Those things should go a long way to resolving my spa issues. I still need to figure what is aggravating my frogspawn, but I think that is more about aggressive flow, which has been addressed.

Thanks again.

JSB · Mar 18, 2012

H@rry said:
I don't know what to tell you except I never had good luck dosing the 2 or 3 part chemicals. I have tried it in the past and the numbers kept see-sawing up and down. Other people seem to do alright with it so I can't say what the difference was. What I have found is running a calcium reactor seems to keep everybody happy. If my calcium reactor maintains the alk, then the calcium and mag fall into place. I never check PO4 & NO3. I know there's some there because algae keeps growing on the glass but I don't know what I would do different if I checked them. Minimum water changes weekly just to replenish trace elements. Carbon 24/7 changed monthly. Temps range from 76.8 - 81.8 on a daily basis. Skimmers not the best in the world but the price was right.

I suspect there might be some trace elements in the CR media that are being released into the system that the coral benefit from.

If I were you I would get a CR, put a pH probe in it connected to a controller and set it to maintain the internal pH to achieve whatever alk you want. See if that helps. Sounds like the main difference between my tanks and yours is the CR, bio-pellets, and lighting. Do you have a electrical ground probe?

Thanks H@rry.

I just added a ground probe last month. I have to seriously consider a CR and move away from the dosing, as I am definitely on the see-saw, albeit with smaller swings than before. So does a CR help at all with Mag, or is that fixed with water changes?

Do you have a link to a discussion on how a CR works? I need an education.

H@rry · Mar 18, 2012

Mag is in the media too. I think Tomoko told be there was a product you could add to the media to kick it up a notch but I haven't needed it. Google calcium reactors and you should get some basic info. Come by and let me show you how I run mine.

Tomoko Schum · Mar 18, 2012

I use Brightwell's Neo Mag pellets (dolomite crystals) in my calcium reactor. I have used a variety of calcium media in the past and my magnesium level tended to be around 1200 unless supplemented with MgCl and Epsom salt. Having Neo Mag mixed in my calcium media seems to keep my Mg level more steady.

JSB · Mar 18, 2012

What about top off water? I see others are topping off with Kalkwasser in addition to using a CR. Is that necessary? I know moving to a CR would be less work, but topping off with kalkwasser becomes more work, and/or more equipment.

H@rry, I will give you a call one afternoon when I am down in that part of town, maybe later this week. Tomoko, I wouldn't mind seeing your CR setup as well.

Thanks folks. I appreciate the help/advice.

Tomoko Schum · Mar 19, 2012

My cacium reactor is a very simple one which was converted from a big whole-house filter inexpensively (by 8Ball). Adding lime to top-off water is not complicated in my case. I just dump a few tablespoons of lime when I fill the reservoir (generally once a week) since my reservoir is not automatically filled with RODI unit. If I run a line under the house to the reservoir, I will still put a valve on it and fill the reservoir manually.

mallorieGgator · Mar 19, 2012

I don't know if you said this or not so I apologize if you did. Did you slowly add your biopellets or did you add them all at once? 1cup is your entire dose I am assuming and it should have been cut in half on initial addtion of the pellets then the other bit should have been slowly added over the course of a few months. If you look at problems with biopellets, it is usually bleaching and rtning due to not slowly adding the pellets.

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