Systemic Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) dosing as treatment for systemic anemone pathogens

[Wtyson254]

 

[Wtyson254]

I read Humblefish's write up on use of peroxide and he did test his bacterial diversity and showed the results...in Coral Magazine there was an article detailing the toll taken on bacterial diversity by UV sterilizers...it might not be obvious but it has been proven...it won't kill all your nitrifying bacteria to the point you'll have a problem with ammonia or anything like that but bacterial diversity plays a big role in the maturity of a tank...just food for thought

In an ideal world, I would not utilize UV sterilization, or oxidation based sterilization (H2O2, Ozone) in my reef aquarium for the reasons you mentioned. However, my current situation, and the current state of disease management in our hobby require me to.

I live in a NYC apartment and I am limited in the QT space I have available. I quarantine every new Fish addition, but I didn’t quarantine the coral, hermit crabs and snails I buy. My 20G QT tank cannot support the bio load of me moving all of my fish from my 110 and treating them and holding them for the time it would take for me to run the tank fallow. Therefore, disease mitigation is my only real option.

The decision of use fish/coral/invert disease mitigation processes (ozone, UV, H2O2) in your system despite the potential negative consequences of decreased biodiversity should be based of the risk/benefits provided. I can’t and I am unwilling to removal all fish from my display and run it fallow for 72 days every time a disease outbreak occurs. With regard to anemone specific pathogens, I am not aware of any feasible way to identify the specific pathogen(s) involved, it’s life cycle, and if it infects/hosts any other marine life in my aquarium. Without this knowledge there can be no way to “cure” the aquarium of the pathogen before returning affected anemone (after an antibiotic treatment) back to the aquarium.

You have to consider the risks and benefits and make a decision you are comfortable with. ‍

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

In an ideal world, I would not utilize UV sterilization, or oxidation based sterilization (H2O2, Ozone) in my reef aquarium for the reasons you mentioned. However, my current situation, and the current state of disease management in our hobby require me to.

I live in a NYC apartment and I am limited in the QT space I have available. I quarantine every new Fish addition, but I didn’t quarantine the coral, hermit crabs and snails I buy. My 20G QT tank cannot support the bio load of me moving all of my fish from my 110 and treating them and holding them for the time it would take for me to run the tank fallow. Therefore, disease mitigation is my only real option.

The decision of use fish/coral/invert disease migrating processes (ozone, UV, H2O2) in your system despite the potential negative consequences of decreased biodiversity should be based of the risk/benefits provided. I can’t and I am unwilling to removal all fish from my display and run it fallow for 72 days every time a disease outbreak occurs. With regard to anemone specific pathogens, I am not aware of any feasible way to identify the specific pathogen(s) involved, it’s life cycle, and if it infects/hosts any other marine life in my aquarium. Without this knowledge there can be no way to “cure” the aquarium of the pathogen before returning affected anemone (after an antibiotic treatment) back to the aquarium.

You have to consider the risks and benefits and make a decision you are comfortable with. ‍

Yeah it's weighing your options like anything else. I don't disagree with that

 

[ReefChasers]

In an ideal world, I would not utilize UV sterilization, or oxidation based sterilization (H2O2, Ozone) in my reef aquarium for the reasons you mentioned. However, my current situation, and the current state of disease management in our hobby require me to.

I live in a NYC apartment and I am limited in the QT space I have available. I quarantine every new Fish addition, but I didn’t quarantine the coral, hermit crabs and snails I buy. My 20G QT tank cannot support the bio load of me moving all of my fish from my 110 and treating them and holding them for the time it would take for me to run the tank fallow. Therefore, disease mitigation is my only real option.

The decision of use fish/coral/invert disease migrating processes (ozone, UV, H2O2) in your system despite the potential negative consequences of decreased biodiversity should be based of the risk/benefits provided. I can’t and I am unwilling to removal all fish from my display and run it fallow for 72 days every time a disease outbreak occurs. With regard to anemone specific pathogens, I am not aware of any feasible way to identify the specific pathogen(s) involved, it’s life cycle, and if it infects/hosts any other marine life in my aquarium. Without this knowledge there can be no way to “cure” the aquarium of the pathogen before returning affected anemone (after an antibiotic treatment) back to the aquarium.

You have to consider the risks and benefits and make a decision you are comfortable with. ‍

Can't disagree with that one. You may find that you can move away from it all together and that your fish will not be showing any further symptoms. I don't think you should take that to mean 'I cured it', more so that 'I managed it'.

 

[Wtyson254]

Can't disagree with that one. You may find that you can move away from it all together and that your fish will not be showing any further symptoms. I don't think you should take that to mean 'I cured it', more so that 'I managed it'.

I plan to run H2O2 long term for now. At least while I am still actively adding new coral/fish/inverts to the aquarium. I will prob send an Aquabiomics test in about three months to see if there is any active fish pathogens in the Aquarium, but I would not even take a negative result from that test as a “true cure.”

 

[MartinM]

I was quoting the humble fish post that was linked. He said it did not eliminate the parasites. There is no reef safe in tank "cure" for ich, peroxide does not cure it. It may help to mitigate it (potentially) during an active outbreak. Plenty of people who have ich in their tanks have 100% survival long term and no signs or symptoms showing on their fish. So really, your experience is anecdotal at best. You may still have dormant ich laying in your system and your fish are simply kept healthy and unaffected.

Ich isnt a death sentance although sometimes treatments can be.

I am sure peroxide dosing at very low amounts is having minimal affects on your particular live stock but every time it hits the water it is indiscriminately killing things and honestly it is best avoided and steered well clear of.

Peroxide is an oxidizer, it has a similar effect to ozone at the current dosages according to Randy Holmes-Farly. That’s the main reason for the current dosing.

Everything about this hobby is anecdotal, it’s impossible to control for enough variables for that to be the case otherwise. Every tank is unique, and there are as many ways to run a succesfully aquarium as there are succesfully aquariums!

However, myself and many other hobbyists have been keeping (and losing) ich prone fish for three decades, and after coming across this H202 protocol, I haven’t had a single ich death since, after having it be a plague for 30 years. It’s proven incredibly successful for myself and those I know.

If you’re not having good luck with it, here are some tips:

- combine with UV (increased oxidation)
- Dose automatically
- Ensure no light reaches the peroxide or dosing lines
- Consider dinning the lights and keeping the window shades closed to reduce light in your tank

Of course, couple with additional aids to assist:

- high power and flow UV, especially at night
- 5 micron socks

hope these help, and have a blessed day!

 

[ReefChasers]

Peroxide is an oxidizer, it has a similar effect to ozone at the current dosages according to Randy Holmes-Farly. That’s the main reason for the current dosing.

Everything about this hobby is anecdotal, it’s impossible to control for enough variables for that to be the case otherwise. Every tank is unique, and there are as many ways to run a succesfully aquarium as there are succesfully aquariums!

However, myself and many other hobbyists have been keeping (and losing) ich prone fish for three decades, and after coming across this H202 protocol, I haven’t had a single ich death since, after having it be a plague for 30 years. It’s proven incredibly successful for myself and those I know.

If you’re not having good luck with it, here are some tips:

- combine with UV (increased oxidation)
- Dose automatically
- Ensure no light reaches the peroxide or dosing lines
- Consider dinning the lights and keeping the window shades closed to reduce light in your tank

Of course, couple with additional aids to assist:

- high power and flow UV, especially at night
- 5 micron socks

hope these help, and have a blessed day!

I think maybe you are just saying it helps you manage the ich rather then cure it and I'm also just saying Ich can be managed without peroxide. At least we can all agree that there are different ways to go about it, but that there isn't necessarily a "miracle cure" for ich. Of course +1 for a well functioning UV Sterilizer which is a well known Ich Manager (not cure).

Also I appreciate your research on antibiotic treatments of Haddoni Carpet Anemones and in general believe in experimentation. It is only through personal experimentation with Hydrogen Peroxide that I do not find it to be a great 'in tank' treatment even at low doses although I will concede that at the most minimal of doses the risk is also probably minimal. I just don't like to recommend to people because they inevitably will get out of hand with it and this will harm there tank with certainty.

We use fish meds Ciprofloxacin and Amoxycillin at the farm to treat Euphyllia corals that we receive with some success and we also apply to anemones at times.

 

[MartinM]

I feel that for hobby purposes, ”manage” and “cure” are splitting hairs, given the lack of capacity for testing for the pathogen in all of it’s various life cycles. Now, if you have a commercial operation, of course that’s a different story, and you’ll have the resources and financial incentive to take things further, such as fiberglass holding systems, etc.

Every situation is different, stocking is different, Etc. In my situation (large, ich prone fish that couldn’t be treated with more conventional medication or moved into a properly sized QT system to do so) it worked well. I definitely would‘t treat a commercial aquaculture operation system with it, though! Use case definitely matters.

Thanks for the love on the Haddoni write-up, I hope it’s helped some people out.