T5 vs Metal Halide

[Wildcats1023]

I will be setting up a 220 mixed reef with a heavy lean towards SPS. The tank will be 30" deep. I am having a hard time deciding on lights. I like the ATI Sunpower T5 8 bulb but I also like the colors and growth from halides. My issue is the energy usage between the two types and I do not want the heat everyone talks about from metal halides. I know that halides are more efficient now and that they do not produce as much heat as they use to. I am thinking I would need 3 250w halide fixtures. Does anyone currently use 3 fixtures and how is the heat and energy use on them? What ballasts are recommended for lowest energy efficiency and lower heat?

Which type would be recommended over the other?

Thanks for any tips and recommendations

 

[ndrwater]

I used to run both in conjunction. Now I don't.
I run Radions am an glad I do. Biggest reason was the electric bill. My meter could have been used as a fan with 4 250w Halides, and another 200w of T5 supplement.
I shaved my electric bill by about 70% using LED.
I am an old school reefer, and IMO nothing beats the color and shimmer of Halide, but with the new LED's, it's pretty darn close.
My issue with T5 has been, and will continue to be they look flat. I will not argue their ability to grow corals, because they absolutely can with oftentimes spectacular results.
All of that said, my Radions not only grow corals, they grow corals like crazy!!
Best part of LED for me besides the amazing growth and color pop is not having to replace bulbs annually or more often (T5 and Halide), much less heat generated (Halide) shimmer and pop is waaay better (T5)
Now I am not going to say never, as that is a long time, but I seriously doubt I will ever go away from LED after the results I have had.
Besides, if a company like World Wide Corals is almost exclusively Radion LED, then that's good enough for me..

 

[jda]

The power is going to be about the same for MH and T5, but a bit more or the MH. Don't overlook 150W HQI if you want to keep lower light SPS or a mixed reef... 14K Phoenix is a great bulb and they really do some good and don't get all that hot.

MH do give off IR, but it does not have to be a problem. Just a simple fan over the top that comes on with the lights can handle the vast majority of all heat problems - if you keep everything closed up, then sure, you will have issues. I only had one day this whole year where my tank went more than one degree and then it never got to two degrees... and I only had a small fan on low and could have bumped it up or could have turned on the AC. The heat can really help in the cold months and your heaters will work less. Basically, heat can be a problem, but it does not have to be with good planning. People go through this in the olden days and never whined about it - it is more of a red herring sales tactic for other types of lightings since it can easily be handled unless you live in Florida or Arizona.

Match the ballasts to the bulbs that you want to use. If you want to use Radium 20K (a gold standard light), then you need to use M80. If you like Hamilton 20K, then electronic will work fine.

Lastly, I hate to be a dooche, but you should always mention the type of SPS that you want to keep by name. Acropora have different lighting requirements than Montis, Birdsnest, Poci and Stylophora. You will get better advice if you do.

 

[jda]

Oh, with 220G of water volume, this takes more to heat up than a smaller tank which also makes MH heat easier to handle.

 

[silvernblackr35]

I went from an ATI Sunpower to 3 250watt radiums on hqi mode with luxcore ballast on a 180 gallon. The heat difference is pretty significant since the ati sunpower blows the heat out the side of the fixture away from the tank and the glass shields on the halides absorb most the heat but also radiate it down into the tank. A simple solution is a small fan blowing across the top hitting the bottom of the glass on the halide pendants. There isn't much different usage in power since you normally only need to run halides about 6 hours compared to 8-10 hours with t5s. I like the color of the t5 combos better but metal halides just make the tank look brighter and aesthetically pleasing. A quality halide bulb driven properly can outlast a t5 bulb when it comes to par loss and spectrum shift as well.

If my tank was in my living room I would go back to t5s just because the fact that my halides can heat up a small to medium sized room pretty quick, but it's in the basement so halides work great in a naturally cooler room. Keep this in mind when making your decision, you want your family and friends to be able to be comfortable while enjoying your tank.

 

[Wildcats1023]

I went from an ATI Sunpower to 3 250watt radiums on hqi mode with luxcore ballast on a 180 gallon. The heat difference is pretty significant since the ati sunpower blows the heat out the side of the fixture away from the tank and the glass shields on the halides absorb most the heat but also radiate it down into the tank. A simple solution is a small fan blowing across the top hitting the bottom of the glass on the halide pendants. There isn't much different usage in power since you normally only need to run halides about 6 hours compared to 8-10 hours with t5s. I like the color of the t5 combos better but metal halides just make the tank look brighter and aesthetically pleasing. A quality halide bulb driven properly can outlast a t5 bulb when it comes to par loss and spectrum shift as well.

If my tank was in my living room I would go back to t5s just because the fact that my halides can heat up a small to medium sized room pretty quick, but it's in the basement so halides work great in a naturally cooler room. Keep this in mind when making your decision, you want your family and friends to be able to be comfortable while enjoying your tank.

This is the heat I'm concerned about. The aquarium will be in my finished basement that will be used as a family room and I don't want it to be too hot from halides.

 

[silvernblackr35]

If it's in a basement and you live in Kentucky it will be fine, heat won't be an issue unless its in a small enclosed room.

 

[Wildcats1023]

If it's in a basement and you live in Kentucky it will be fine, heat won't be an issue unless its in a small enclosed room.

I do live in KY and the room will be approximately 580 sqf

 

[jda]

In every month except for July and August, you will be happy for the bit of heat. Vent the fan outside of the room for those two months if you feel the need... with the emergence of legal weed in a lot of places, there are excellent hydroponics fans and ducts for cheap that you could use to get the air out. This is probably not necessary, though.

We have a family room about that size with a 240 and the tank will not heat it up in the summer or winter more than just a touch and I just blow the fans across the top of the tank in the summer (no fans except for July and August). If we want to affect any change, we have to turn on the furnace or AC - we nearly never run the AC.

 

[3mm3]

I'm using 2 on my setup. I do not use fans. Mine is also a finished basement room setup but I do have ac to keep humidity down due to my location. Also I had to add heaters to keep my Temps up to 75. My tank is open top reefer 650.
Pendants: Hamilton Cayman Sun x 2
Bulbs: Phoenix 14K HQI x 2
Ballast: luxcore 250w selectable watt x 2

Was going to originally add t5 actinic but found was not needed.

 

[A. grandis]

You could also think about build a vent for the halides.
I had my halides close to the window and a fan to blow air to the fixtures and out of the window.
Some people make fancy air conduits from the fixtures to out in the open.

Grandis.

 

[Kann]

I used to run both in conjunction. Now I don't.
I run Radions am an glad I do. Biggest reason was the electric bill. My meter could have been used as a fan with 4 250w Halides, and another 200w of T5 supplement.
I shaved my electric bill by about 70% using LED.
I am an old school reefer, and IMO nothing beats the color and shimmer of Halide, but with the new LED's, it's pretty darn close.
My issue with T5 has been, and will continue to be they look flat. I will not argue their ability to grow corals, because they absolutely can with oftentimes spectacular results.
All of that said, my Radions not only grow corals, they grow corals like crazy!!
Best part of LED for me besides the amazing growth and color pop is not having to replace bulbs annually or more often (T5 and Halide), much less heat generated (Halide) shimmer and pop is waaay better (T5)
Now I am not going to say never, as that is a long time, but I seriously doubt I will ever go away from LED after the results I have had.
Besides, if a company like World Wide Corals is almost exclusively Radion LED, then that's good enough for me..

ndrwater - I'm considering Radions on my 210. It is a 30" tall tank with a 24x72 footprint. Can you give us some details on your tank? Footprint, height, etc? I'm wondering if I could get by with 3 XR30W G4 Pros only on my tank for an SPS dominant tank. I'm worried about shading and penetration to that depth. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts along with others that may have any experience with a similar setup. Thanks!

 

[cracker]

I used 3, 250 watt mh & electronic ballasts on my old 220. I hoods are old Hydro Farms, these hoods have glass shields. The hoods were vented & tied together with cloths dryer flex tubing. A small blower fan at one end. The hot air came out the other . Not practical but no heat issues.I bought these hoods from a guy who "had" an indoor horticultural endeavor . He needed the money for lawyer fees. LOL They came with 1000watt magnetic ballasts ! I sold these to another guy with the same idea . This money helped with the cost of 3 electronic ballasts. Never had any heat issues & the electric bill wasn't significant. I loved the look, plenty of par.I still have them in storage. One more thing, the ballasts could run either 250 or 175 bulbs.

 

[ndrwater]

ndrwater - I'm considering Radions on my 210. It is a 30" tall tank with a 24x72 footprint. Can you give us some details on your tank? Footprint, height, etc? I'm wondering if I could get by with 3 XR30W G4 Pros only on my tank for an SPS dominant tank. I'm worried about shading and penetration to that depth. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts along with others that may have any experience with a similar setup. Thanks!

I have a standard 240 gallon tank. 96"x24"x24". I think you could absolutely get away with 3 G4 pros. I run mine "front to back" about 8" apart. For what it's worth, I used my Reeflink and acclimation mode to get up to 85% on the standard AB+ program. I also run my lights from 10am to 10pm.

 

[sgrosenb]

The power is going to be about the same for MH and T5, but a bit more or the MH. Don't overlook 150W HQI if you want to keep lower light SPS or a mixed reef... 14K Phoenix is a great bulb and they really do some good and don't get all that hot.

MH do give off IR, but it does not have to be a problem. Just a simple fan over the top that comes on with the lights can handle the vast majority of all heat problems - if you keep everything closed up, then sure, you will have issues. I only had one day this whole year where my tank went more than one degree and then it never got to two degrees... and I only had a small fan on low and could have bumped it up or could have turned on the AC. The heat can really help in the cold months and your heaters will work less. Basically, heat can be a problem, but it does not have to be with good planning. People go through this in the olden days and never whined about it - it is more of a red herring sales tactic for other types of lightings since it can easily be handled unless you live in Florida or Arizona.

Match the ballasts to the bulbs that you want to use. If you want to use Radium 20K (a gold standard light), then you need to use M80. If you like Hamilton 20K, then electronic will work fine.

Lastly, I hate to be a dooche, but you should always mention the type of SPS that you want to keep by name. Acropora have different lighting requirements than Montis, Birdsnest, Poci and Stylophora. You will get better advice if you do.

Hi there - reviving an old thread here. I have a 156g 60x24x24 tank that's been up for a bit over a year (well, it's been up for about 2.5 years, but I did a major overhaul and added 100% live rock from the ocean about a year ago, so I considered it a restart).

I'm having success keeping SPS, but some of them aren't really growing. I'm curious if anyone thinks it could be lighting, or if it just needs time. My lighting is a hybrid 4x Radion G4 XR15 Pros and 4x T5 at about 9" above the water. Par seems to be pretty solid at 250-400. I keep them on the following setting from 9:00am-5:30pm (along with the T5's):

I know @jda mentioned to differentiate SPS - I actually do have great growth with Monti's and Birdsnest, but my acropora grow really really slow, if at all (except for a stag that I have - that thing grows fast). Is there any clue there on why I'm having success with those but not acro's? My first priority out of everything is to get acro's growing.

My other parameters are pretty much in-line with what folks seem to think is ideal for SPS:

• Cal 420
• Mag 1350
• Alk 8.0 dKH steady as a rock
• NO3 5ppm - I dose sodium nitrate to keep it there or else it bottoms out
• PO4 anywhere from 0.03-0.05 depending on when I do a water change, dose reef roids, etc
• Bubble King Mini 180 skimmer 24/7
• Fuge with chaeto that grows fast
• Maxspect Gyre 330's on each side of the tank - solid flow but I do feel like it could be stronger
• Roughly 16 fish - feed them pellets 2x daily, 2 cubes of PE Mysis shrimp 1x daily
• Feed amino acids and acropower and reef roids here and there
• Most recent ICP tests from Triton and ATI show pretty much perfect levels across the board, except for slightly low Iodine

My long-winded post's final question is - do you think I have enough light or if I would benefit form MH or T5 instead of my hybrid T5/LED combo for my acros?

Thanks!
Scott

 

[jda]

While I do think that MH is another level or two above Radion and T5, you should be getting growth with your acropora - not all agree and I don't argue with people anymore (or try not to). Stags and MBP&S are way easier, for sure... but acros should be growing at a decent clip.

 

[TLO45]

I’m a long time halide user... love them! That being said a few years back I set up a new system and decided maybe it was time to move towards modern technology. I made the jump to Radions and although there was a serious learning curve for me I have settled on T5 and Radions. T5 down the middle and Radions as supplemental. I like the look, less heat ( although in my case it wasn’t an issue anyway) and with build choices for T5 and adjustability with LEDs I believe you can get whatever you like/ need.

 

[A. grandis]

Halides are on a higher level above all lights and results are the proof. They have the spectrum (including UV and IR), spread, distribution and delivery that no other could surpass simply because of the nature of the technology. All lights have their limits, pros and cons. Halides cons don't come from QUALITY OF LIGHT, but from the product of it's technology, naturally. With proper application, prioritizing it's qualities and results instead electricity consumption and heat, no one in the right mind will choose any other reef lighting system if what they want to recreate in their homes is a close to natural reef system. This is my opinion.