Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

[mjreefs]

My Powder Brown just recently died. He was a real handful and ruled the tank. I have not been able to successfully add fish to my system for years as he would just bully them to death. My Regal Hippo some how survived years of chasing from this guy. As sad as I am that he’s passed, I’m now hoping to add to my system. Just hoping the Hippo doesn’t become an aggressor since he is the largest in the tank now.
Would love some recommendations on another possible tang to add. Display is 190g (60-30-24) with moderate aquascaping and full mixed reef. Fish in the system are: Lawnmower Blenny, Mystery Wrasse, Leopard Wrasse, Porcupine Puffer, mated pair of perc. Clowns (10 years old) red fairy Wrasse, royal garamma, long nose hawkfish, Regal Blue Hippo, Lyretail Anthias and a small snowflake eel.
It’s nice having the Hippo not constantly hiding and swimming about without getting chased. He’s only about 4”. The Puffer is only about 3”, a model citizen as long as you don’t get between him and his food. We feed him off of a feeding stick as he’s rather slow or blind. Usually Have to bring the food right to him and then he bits the stick on the first attempt of getting the food. Very silly..
People have mentioned Naso tangs to me in the past and I’ve usually brushed the thought off as I felt my tank was far to small. But I am wondering on the growth rate now. I got the Hippo when he was the size of a 50 cent piece and that was 5 years ago. So to me his rate of growth hasn’t been super quick. Is this the same with the Naso? A much larger tank is coming in the future..

I'd personally recommend one of the Ctenochaetus tangs (Tomini, Kole, etc.). You may also consider one of the Zebrasoma tangs (Purple, HYT, Gem, etc.). Not an expert, but still hope this helps. Let's see what others would recommend.

 

[4FordFamily]

My Powder Brown just recently died. He was a real handful and ruled the tank. I have not been able to successfully add fish to my system for years as he would just bully them to death. My Regal Hippo some how survived years of chasing from this guy. As sad as I am that he’s passed, I’m now hoping to add to my system. Just hoping the Hippo doesn’t become an aggressor since he is the largest in the tank now.
Would love some recommendations on another possible tang to add. Display is 190g (60-30-24) with moderate aquascaping and full mixed reef. Fish in the system are: Lawnmower Blenny, Mystery Wrasse, Leopard Wrasse, Porcupine Puffer, mated pair of perc. Clowns (10 years old) red fairy Wrasse, royal garamma, long nose hawkfish, Regal Blue Hippo, Lyretail Anthias and a small snowflake eel.
It’s nice having the Hippo not constantly hiding and swimming about without getting chased. He’s only about 4”. The Puffer is only about 3”, a model citizen as long as you don’t get between him and his food. We feed him off of a feeding stick as he’s rather slow or blind. Usually Have to bring the food right to him and then he bits the stick on the first attempt of getting the food. Very silly..
People have mentioned Naso tangs to me in the past and I’ve usually brushed the thought off as I felt my tank was far to small. But I am wondering on the growth rate now. I got the Hippo when he was the size of a 50 cent piece and that was 5 years ago. So to me his rate of growth hasn’t been super quick. Is this the same with the Naso? A much larger tank is coming in the future..

Nearly any tang should get along with it but you may be better adding two to spread aggression.

 

[HotRocks]

Nearly any tang should get along with it but you may be better adding two to spread aggression.

I agree ^^^ I would add at least two or three tangs (All at same time) so long as you choose them right it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Booger McMoron]

I have a PBT, a Hippo, and a Purple. The Purple and the PBT were added together and leave the hippo alone. The PBT does have some aggression issues but that is focused towards a magnificent foxface. I believe three is the magic number for my six foot 125. It seems to disperse aggression and give them room to move without stumbling on each other.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Nearly any tang should get along with it but you may be better adding two to spread aggression.[/QUOTE

I did this when I added the PBT originally. The second tang was a beautiful Sailfin, that was the first victim of the PBT. At this time the Hippo had been in the tank for a year. Next on the hit list was my mag. Fox face, then my swallowtail angel, my quoting parrot, two blue throat triggers, a golden dwarf moray and various Wrasse/blennies/ gobies. The last year and a half the Hippo was the target even though it was bigger. He’s handled it well. It’s been so long since I’ve really beeen able to have a choice of fish to be able to put in.
Maybe I’ll see if I can find a smaller Scopas or purple, not sure on a second type of tang. Would love to do a naso but feel I need at least 500g minimum for one

 

[mcbdz]

YAY! I made it through all 38 pages. I have learned so much reading through this. Setting up a 8ft x 2ft x 2ft 240gal tank that we got so we could get tangs. As soon as I get my list together I plan to come here and get advice before I buy anything.

 

[4FordFamily]

YAY! I made it through all 38 pages. I have learned so much reading through this. Setting up a 8ft x 2ft x 2ft 240gal tank that we got so we could get tangs. As soon as I get my list together I plan to come here and get advice before I buy anything.

Tag me when you do for some reason I’ve not been getting notifications here all the time so people are getting neglected! Going through my thread now.

 

[4FordFamily]

I have had 6 different types of tangs together.
PBT, Clown, Sohal, Yellow Eye Kole, Desjardini, Bristletooth and 3 Regal Tangs.
Small shows of aggression, but the slightly bigger Desjardini kept everyone else in check. This worked fine for a while.

Then I introduced a big Goniopora that required a little redecoration of the rockwork.
That reset the territories slightly, and suddenly I had fighting for 3-4 days resulting in a dead PBT. I still suspect the boss (Desjardini) for being responsible. Following all this stress several fish got Ich, but no casualties.

After the aggression died down again, and Ich was all but gone my appartment building had a power outage that cost me the Kole, Clown and Sohal.

My 3 Regals are all in fine shape still, and my Bristletooth is thriving, but the boss Desjardini has a bit of Ich from the stress.

Would love to reintroduce a new Clown, PBT and Sohal, but waiting until I can afford backup power, and find the fish in an appropriate size

You need to remove and treat your fish before adding others. Sounds like you have velvet. Sorry

I have a Biota yellow tang in a 25. He's about 2 inches. I'm upgrading to a 100 gallon and was wondering when I move him to the new tank if it would work to add a different tang...same size? Type? Suggestions would be welcome

Different type would be best. I recommend a bristlooth tang of some sort . Similar size wouldn’t be a bad idea, if adding tangs later larger may be a better bet.

I actually have a Mustard Guttatus Tang. Not necessarily a terror but hates my purple tang, even though purple tang was one of the first residents (I think he came in slightly larger than the purple tang). When I introduced a PBT, the mustard went nuts and chased my purple tang. I don’t know why, probably he was exerting dominance over the purple and just to show the purple and PBT who’s the real boss. After a few weeks, they calmed down, but the mustard still has a dislike of the purple tang and would just flash at the purple, and not really chase it, probably just to scare it (and everyone else, including my large annularis angel) away. I also introduced a smaller HYT prior to the PBT, and there were chasings between the purple and HYT for a few days before they calmed down. Now, there are no more chasings between them. Not sure who’s the boss, probably my annularis angel, who’s bigger than everyone else, but that guy’s a very docile, very shy angel.

Btw, is there a similar thread for angels? I do know which angel would be at the top and the bottom of the list though, just interested in everyone else.

Mixing angels is another of my specialties but to be honest, it’s similar to tangs. Angels are more of a ticking time bomb though. They can suddenly not get along. Paying attention to genus, size, order added, and having several to diffuse aggression are some important considerations. Know that with all of this, is risk.

 

[mjreefs]

You need to remove and treat your fish before adding others. Sounds like you have velvet. Sorry



Different type would be best. I recommend a bristlooth tang of some sort . Similar size wouldn’t be a bad idea, if adding tangs later larger may be a better bet.



Mixing angels is another of my specialties but to be honest, it’s similar to tangs. Angels are more of a ticking time bomb though. They can suddenly not get along. Paying attention to genus, size, order added, and having several to diffuse aggression are some important considerations. Know that with all of this, is risk.

When you say ticking time bombs, does it have to do with maturity (size)? Like the sohal and kole which get increasingly nasty when they grow.

 

[4FordFamily]

When you say ticking time bombs, does it have to do with maturity (size)? Like the sohal and kole which get increasingly nasty when they grow.

That is definitely a factor, it’s difficult to say what else causes it. But yes that’s a major factor.

 

[mjreefs]

That is definitely a factor, it’s difficult to say what else causes it. But yes that’s a major factor.

Should there be a similar thread for angelfish? I mean, tangs have 2 threads, I believe angels should have 2 as well!

 

[4FordFamily]

Should there be a similar thread for angelfish? I mean, tangs have 2 threads, I believe angels should have 2 as well!

Maybe some day!

 

[mjreefs]

Maybe some day!

I do hope so! What's interesting about angels is their potential to pair up (especially those in the genus Chaetodontoplus) unlike tangs which should be housed singly in a tank (or a shoal/school, which is only possible in monster tanks).

Back to tangs, just curious:
Has anyone else who managed to mix multiple Acanthurus tangs? I was able to add a PBT to a Mustard Guttatus. The thing with the genus Acanthurus is that, in my personal-yet-probably-erroneous-opinion, the genus could
probably be divided into 2-3 kinds depending on the body shape: the rounder ones (PBT, Achilles, Powder Brown, Goldrim, and all its hybrids), the elongated ones (Clown, Sohal, Fowleri, etc.) and the "ones in between" (Mustard, Atlantic Blue, Convict, etc.). Since I believe the rule is to add tangs of different genus (due to their difference in shape) to minimize aggression. Probably a more appropriate statement is to add tangs of different body shapes (if you're going to consider the three slightly body different shapes of the Acanthurus tangs).

 

[HotRocks]

I do hope so! What's interesting about angels is their potential to pair up (especially those in the genus Chaetodontoplus) unlike tangs which should be housed singly in a tank (or a shoal/school, which is only possible in monster tanks).

Back to tangs, just curious:
Has anyone else who managed to mix multiple Acanthurus tangs? I was able to add a PBT to a Mustard Guttatus. The thing with the genus Acanthurus is that, in my personal-yet-probably-erroneous-opinion, the genus could
probably be divided into 2-3 kinds depending on the body shape: the rounder ones (PBT, Achilles, Powder Brown, Goldrim, and all its hybrids), the elongated ones (Clown, Sohal, Fowleri, etc.) and the "ones in between" (Mustard, Atlantic Blue, Convict, etc.). Since I believe the rule is to add tangs of different genus (due to their difference in shape) to minimize aggression. Probably a more appropriate statement is to add tangs of different body shapes (if you're going to consider the three slightly body different shapes of the Acanthurus tangs).

I keep three in a 180.

Powder Blue
Achilles
Powder brown

I have a massive desjardini that is the boss.

I also keep a kole, PT, YT, and a baby yellow belly blue hippo.

So 8 total.

 

[OrionN]

In large tanks, not so much of a problem.

 

[4FordFamily]

I do hope so! What's interesting about angels is their potential to pair up (especially those in the genus Chaetodontoplus) unlike tangs which should be housed singly in a tank (or a shoal/school, which is only possible in monster tanks).

Back to tangs, just curious:
Has anyone else who managed to mix multiple Acanthurus tangs? I was able to add a PBT to a Mustard Guttatus. The thing with the genus Acanthurus is that, in my personal-yet-probably-erroneous-opinion, the genus could
probably be divided into 2-3 kinds depending on the body shape: the rounder ones (PBT, Achilles, Powder Brown, Goldrim, and all its hybrids), the elongated ones (Clown, Sohal, Fowleri, etc.) and the "ones in between" (Mustard, Atlantic Blue, Convict, etc.). Since I believe the rule is to add tangs of different genus (due to their difference in shape) to minimize aggression. Probably a more appropriate statement is to add tangs of different body shapes (if you're going to consider the three slightly body different shapes of the Acanthurus tangs).

If added together sometimes you can get away with things you shouldn't do. I do agree with your "grouping" of acanthurus tangs being different, if different enough you can get away with mixing more easily as you hypothesized.

 

[mjreefs]

I keep three in a 180.

Powder Blue
Achilles
Powder brown

I have a massive desjardini that is the boss.

I also keep a kole, PT, YT, and a baby yellow belly blue hippo.

So 8 total.

I believe that the PBT, Achilles and Powder Brown were added at the same time? I wonder what would happen when you take the desjardini out of the picture, and the next one in line is one of the three. I think who the boss of the tank also matters.

In large tanks, not so much of a problem.

Yes, that’s another variable that should be considered. There is a higher success rate when you introduce 3 of the same genus in a 500 compared to a 240 (just stating the probability, not necessarily it won’t work out in the 240). But then again, every fish is different, although there are generalizations, there are a few exceptions, hopefully, when we get one, it is not the exception.

If added together sometimes you can get away with things you shouldn't do. I do agree with your "grouping" of acanthurus tangs being different, if different enough you can get away with mixing more easily as you hypothesized.

Well in my experience, I got away with adding a smaller PBT to an established Mustard Tang. The Annularis in my tank is most probably the boss since it’s the largest, but the Mustard is a very active swimmer, constantly doing laps in the tank. I was initially worried that the Mustard would harass the PBT given its high activity, but I still decided to pull the trigger. When the PBT was introduced, it was the purple that took a disliking of the PBT and harassed it, but not to the point of beating it down. The Mustard never had issues with the PBT, they just ignore each other.

 

[HotRocks]

I believe that the PBT, Achilles and Powder Brown were added at the same time?

Actually no, the Achilles and powder brown were introduced at the same time as the sailfin and kole. Then I added the yellow tang, purple tang, and PBT second round, lastly my yellow belly blue hippo.

 

[Mike1995]

I had a scopas tang who now unfortunately died, he went after everything. My angel. Wrasse. Even my snails and hermit crabs. My maroon clowns were the only thing he didn't terrorize.

 

[HotRocks]

I had a scopas tang who now unfortunately died, he went after everything. My angel. Wrasse. Even my snails and hermit crabs. My maroon clowns were the only thing he didn't terrorize.

I had a scopas once that was terrorizing a QT, I had to donate it to the LFS. It attacked EVERYTHING.