Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

What should I do with a purple tang that is bullying my brand new parrot fish? Should I pull the aggressive tang or just keep them separated within the tank for a few days?
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I would keep then separated and then see what happens. Purple tangs are typically not THAT agressive, things will likely chill out. Feed heavy nori, let them establish turf
 
So what's the deal with tangs? How do I keep them together? Why are they so aggressive and difficult to keep sometimes? It's a common discussion point. Some may dissent with what I have to share but I've never had less than three tanks running at a time, up to 7, and have been in the hobby ~15 years with 2 of them spent working for an LFS running their saltwater fish dept largely, for what it's worth.

Root of Tang Aggression:
Understand that from a tangs point of view, more herbivores means less algae. They've evolved to defend their patch of algae and territory very hard because they may starve if someone else comes in and takes it over. It's literally life or death for them. Angels and other herbivores are occasionally ousted but tangs in particular are often in direct competition for food and will be heckled heavily. The only herbivore that is tolerated (sometimes) is foxface. This is because they're venomous. Even still I've seen tangs stress them to death literally.

Tangs are often most aggressive to members of the same species in home aquaria and species in the same genus. When not schooling, they often protect a patch of rock from other fish, often other tangs, particularly tangs of the same species. (It is much more likely that they will compete for food since their diet is identical)

Tangs are also more likely to be aggressive in the home aquaria because they are stressed and in smaller quarters. Even the best hobbyists have questionable environments compared to their natural homes in the ocean. Fish that swim several miles each day such as many acanthurus tangs (particularly PBT, Achilles, etc) feel cramped and as with any organism that is stressed, they can respond to this by "acting out" (aggression).

The author keeps quite a few tangs in his own aquarium as you can see in the 2 photos below.
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What Does Tang Aggression Look Like?

Tangs are purpose built for eating algae and defending said food source. They're equipped with at least one scalpel near the base of the tail for "swiping" other fish. This is where the name "surgeonfish" came from. These can do a lot of damage and leave serious lascerations. When adding or mixing tangs, be on the lookout for aggression and know when to implement "Plan B". Constant chasing, nipping, and swiping is not a good sign and unlikely to stop. As you'll read later, some species hold grudges forever and others let bygones be bygones on occasion. It's your job as the hobbyist to know when to intervene. Occasional chasing, flaring fins, circling each other, or swiping motions that are clearly a dominance display rather than a true attempt at puncturing the other fish should be noted but are common in a tank mixed with territorial herbivores.

With all of this in mind, your existing tangs are not going to be welcoming.

The degree of aggression the new tangs receive can be curbed by:
1) Keep them very very well fed. Keep enough nori in there that by the end of the day it is gone but they have access to it for most of the day. This will make them feel like they need to compete less, but it's no guarantee.

2) Re-arrange rockwork. This can be successful because the tang feels like they are no longer in their territory temporarily and may hesitate to be as aggressive as otherwise.

3) Add multiple tangs at a time. Tangs can take some serious abuse, but 3 on 1 new addition is terrible odds. It may work but the new fish will be very stressed and possibly stabbed several times. Even if only one new tang heckled the new tang it would not be a fair fight - a fat established and possibly more aggressive species targeting a fish that has been through heck getting to you and as such has a weak immune system, is thinner presumably because it hasn't eaten as it should, and is very stressed. More tangs will increase distraction and will break up aggression considerably, providing you don't have a tang that singles one of the newcomers out. Powder blue are notorious for picking a grudge and taking it to their grave. Other aggressive species often simmer down in a weeks time. If the fish makes it that long things should get better, presuming they don't succumb to ich or other parasites.

4) Use acclimation boxes. This shields the newcomer from attacks from other fish and gets them used to seeing the new fish. It also allows the new fish to adjust a bit so that it is better able to defend itself and know its surroundings better.

5) Mirrors placed in the corner of the tank. For a very aggressive tang, sometimes a mirror placed in the corners will keep the fish flashing and attacking itself rather than harassing a new addition. I've personally never done this but have heard of some limited success.

6) Removal of the problem fish and a re-introduction later. This can work because the tank pecking order is disrupted. The fish will be confused by the change and work out their own new pecking order and be less concerned with harassing the newcomers. Upon reintroduction some few days or months later, assumedly the new fish will not be the tank boss and will not be as territorial as a result (since it is not his territory now - yet)

7) A combination of these ideas. To hedge your bets, mixing strategies may well be worth the effort.

8) If you are planning to add tangs of the same genus, definitely add more than one. I frequently break the rules with tangs. One tank has a PBT and Achilles tang together, another has a PBT, Achilles, and goldrim together. I even have a pair of achilles together (do NOT try this at home). They get along great. This wasn't easy and some fish had to be moved around and they were added simultaneously most of the time. I've always kept purple, yellow, and sailfins as a trio. Again, adding at the same time. They've always gotten along well. I've done this for 12 years with more than three test groups in various tanks on various occasions.

Adding a yellow to an established purple for instance is likely to end in the death of the yellow. Adding an Achilles to a PBT is often murder.

Notice the 2 Achilles tangs, PBT, and Goldrim together in these two photos.
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9) Adding tangs of larger OR smaller size. There is different logic to this theory, both is probably valid. Add larger less aggressive tangs than your most aggressive tang to intimidate it. Again some may not be intimidated... particularly PBT.

Adding smaller tangs may make sense because the existing tang may see them as LESS of a threat for dominance in the pecking order (but still a threat to its food sources...)

Many people have different opinions but the only steadfast rule I follow is not to add tangs of the same exact size unless I am adding them in groups.

Conclusion:

Understand that none of this is fool proof. Powder blue tangs in particular are notorious for holding a permanent grudge. Months of time apart will not work if they have a "personal vendetta" to destroy a fish-- not always a tang, either.

Sohal tangs IME are not nearly as aggressive as people make them out to be. I hypothesize that a few people had terror sohal tangs and their stories keep getting repeated by other members and shared with others. As such, they get a worse rep than they deserve because of the same stories being told by several reefers. Honestly I don't even rank sohal tangs in the top 5 most aggressive tangs, although it is on my list because I've not owned all tangs

My list is this: (I'm only ranking tangs I've actually had experience with). This is just an opinion after having several of each species over the years in multiple tanks.

1) Powder Blue
2) Powder Brown
3) Sohal (increasingly nasty with size)
4) Clown (increasingly nasty with size)
5) Achilles (some are docile but the nasty are up there with PBT)
6) Purple
7) Yellow
8) Goldrim/ White Cheek
9) Scopas
10) Gem
11) Kole (increasingly nasty with size)
12) Sailfin
13) Atlantic blue
14) Desjardini Sailfin
15) Hippo & YB Hippo
16) Tomini Tang
17) Chevron
18) Orange Shoulder
19) Convict Tang
20) Blonde Naso
21) Naso

A lot of variance exists between species, this is just my experience and observations over the years with other peers and kin I interact with or see them and their tanks frequently.

I hope this is helpful.
I have a question. I've had both a watchman goby and Naso for over 6 months. This morning the Naso viciously attacked the goby. Why would he do that?
 
What should I do with a purple tang that is bullying my brand new parrot fish? Should I pull the aggressive tang or just keep them separated within the tank for a few days?
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Separation could work, though unless very large a parrotfish should be able to hide pretty well. I wouldn't keep parrotfish with leopard wrasse, as a general rule, for what that is worth.
 
I have a question. I've had both a watchman goby and Naso for over 6 months. This morning the Naso viciously attacked the goby. Why would he do that?
That's a great question.
I've not heard of Naso doing this. IME they don't pick fights, but they will finish them when needed. If the goby chased the Naso or bit it, the Naso very well may retaliate. Naso tangs can do some damage, but are typically gentle giants, opting to "carry a big stick" rather than showing force.

Also, If a goby was perceived as a grave threat to the Naso's food, it's possible as well but still unlikely. Is the tank overall lightly stocked?

Gobies can be aggressive in defending their territory. I am guessing this was a case of the goby getting ornery and being put in his place, swiftly and effectively. If you don't see further aggression I wouldn't worry. Sometimes the pecking order has to be established and it can get nasty. If you do see the aggression continuing, that's very rare, and you may have to separate them.
 
Guys, again for some reason your posts here aren't showing up, even though I am subscribed to this thread. Feel free to tag me @4FordFamily if you want to ask me specific questions so they don't go a long time without answering. Sorry, not sure what the deal is!
 
That's a great question.
I've not heard of Naso doing this. IME they don't pick fights, but they will finish them when needed. If the goby chased the Naso or bit it, the Naso very well may retaliate. Naso tangs can do some damage, but are typically gentle giants, opting to "carry a big stick" rather than showing force.

Also, If a goby was perceived as a grave threat to the Naso's food, it's possible as well but still unlikely. Is the tank overall lightly stocked?

Gobies can be aggressive in defending their territory. I am guessing this was a case of the goby getting ornery and being put in his place, swiftly and effectively. If you don't see further aggression I wouldn't worry. Sometimes the pecking order has to be established and it can get nasty. If you do see the aggression continuing, that's very rare, and you may have to separate them.
Thanks for the response! And I think your right as they share the same corner. Your also right my Naso is a gentle giant! And Goby can be rude. I have a 180 with:
Foxface
2 yellow tangs
Blue Hippo
Naso
A pair of clowns
Watchman Goby
Morish Idol
Fairy wrasse
Coral beauty and
The new addition A juvenile emperor angel
 
First of all. ID help please. I have what was supposed to be a white tail bristletooth
but I think is really an Indian Gold Ring Bristletooth
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I was just given a Scopas. He’s gorgeous and I wasn’t expecting that. Pictures made me think they were just boring brownish yellow. Anyway, he was a greedy terror in his old home so was given to me and will be going into my 50 gallon Clarkii clownfish jail until we can find a permanent home for him, but he’s so pretty I’m wondering if my 125 gallon main tank could be that home. I have the bristletooth in there already. The Scopas is in my quarantine awaiting his sentence. Lol (this picture of him in this bag makes him look small, but he is not)
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First of all. ID help please. I have what was supposed to be a white tail bristletooth
but I think is really an Indian Gold Ring Bristletooth
1231169-e0af2b777c01f937b0f630ec6660ef43.jpg


I was just given a Scopas. He’s gorgeous and I wasn’t expecting that. Pictures made me think they were just boring brownish yellow. Anyway, he was a greedy terror in his old home so was given to me and will be going into my 50 gallon Clarkii clownfish jail until we can find a permanent home for him, but he’s so pretty I’m wondering if my 125 gallon main tank could be that home. I have the bristletooth in there already. The Scopas is in my quarantine awaiting his sentence. Lol (this picture of him in this bag makes him look small, but he is not)
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I agree with your ID. I assume the question is whether you can combine the two tangs. That depends on the individual tangs. Does the main tank have other tangs?

If it’s one tang added to an incumbent and sole tang that’s a risky proposition. If the bristletooth is docile it may work fine. Ideally, a social or acclimation box may help, or a divider. But this is of course risky. It may be that it works out fine, but it could go the other way. The first 48 hours are probably the determinant.

Re-arranging rock work and the other suggestions in the article may help. If the new tank is highly stocked or has other tangs it may work out a bit better, but adding one tang is always a bit risky.

I hope this helps, but this is an unpredictable situation, IMO. Can they coexist? Yes. If added concurrently, they probably would, almost certainly.
 
Agression often stops (IME) over a couple of days. It might be a painful couple of days - but - if there are lots of hiding spots - it usually resolves. It is an interesting question - because Im about to add another fish to my 'purple tang, 2 yellow tangs, harlequin tusk, blue lined dotty back' tank (with a clown that doesnt care) soon. Might have more anecdotal information soon
 
I have a large friendly foxface, but no tangs other than the bristletooth. The bristletooth is fairly new. I think I let her out of quarantine less than a month ago. I could probably catch her and put her back in the quarantine if you think it would help make introductions easier. The Scopas is 2-3x as big and I was asked to take him because he was an aggressive eater keeping her docile fish from eating. I do have an acclimation box and a tank full of semi-aggressive fish thanks to my murderous clowns.
 
Quick Tang question. I have a Yellow in my 75 and would like to get another tang. What would your suggestion be if I can add another one. I had a 180 gallon years ago and had several types but more room for them.
I also have a Clown, blue damsel and a Flame angel. The clown and damsel are aggressive and killed a firefish I had bought. So I need larger fish to be able to defend themselves until they get used to. Id even get other dwarf angles but hear they would fight. Maybe anyway.

TIA
 
I don't think you want to add another tang, I know some will says it's fine if you add a tomini or Bristle but your going to end up having to get rid of the Yellow when it gets bigger. 70 is just to small for tangs. I have 2 in my 185gl.
 
I have a desjardini tang with a great disposition. She is easily the dominant fish in the tank and the largest tang by more than an inch. as the queen of the tank, she makes sure nobody usurps her authority and consistently breaks up aggression from other large fish. my tank is only 100 gallons so the three 3 tangs I have is quite a lot for the space. Sometimes my powder blue chases and bullies the small hippo tang. but if he doesn't let up in a few seconds my desjardini calmy glides in front of the offending fish and puffs up her fins. I assume she wants to show that only she gets to show dominance in her tank. But as for my desjardini agressing on other fish, it never happens. she is a model citizen. even better, a benevolent dictator. I am not afraid to add a new tang to the tank when the powder blue outgrows the tanks and is moved. I trust that she will keep the peace between any tangs. I think establishing a passive fish at the top of the social hierarchy can be a huge key to success all by itself.
 
Quick Tang question. I have a Yellow in my 75 and would like to get another tang. What would your suggestion be if I can add another one. I had a 180 gallon years ago and had several types but more room for them.
I also have a Clown, blue damsel and a Flame angel. The clown and damsel are aggressive and killed a firefish I had bought. So I need larger fish to be able to defend themselves until they get used to. Id even get other dwarf angles but hear they would fight. Maybe anyway.

TIA
I would just leave the Yellow tang by himself. 70 gal is small. Yellow tang will not reach his full size but by himself, he will not be stressed by another tang. He will be small but can have a happy life, and get fat. Most likely, neither him or the new tang will be happy. That is why tang often get Ich, stressed when crowded.
I don't think you want to add another tang, I know some will says it's fine if you add a tomini or Bristle but your going to end up having to get rid of the Yellow when it gets bigger. 70 is just to small for tangs. I have 2 in my 185gl.
I agree. I have three tangs in my 320. A Powder blue, Yellow and Purple. They are doing well but the Yellow and Purple does get on each other nerve. Something about the same shape. :)
I have a desjardini tang with a great disposition. She is easily the dominant fish in the tank and the largest tang by more than an inch. as the queen of the tank, she makes sure nobody usurps her authority and consistently breaks up aggression from other large fish. my tank is only 100 gallons so the three 3 tangs I have is quite a lot for the space. Sometimes my powder blue chases and bullies the small hippo tang. but if he doesn't let up in a few seconds my desjardini calmy glides in front of the offending fish and puffs up her fins. I assume she wants to show that only she gets to show dominance in her tank. But as for my desjardini agressing on other fish, it never happens. she is a model citizen. even better, a benevolent dictator. I am not afraid to add a new tang to the tank when the powder blue outgrows the tanks and is moved. I trust that she will keep the peace between any tangs. I think establishing a passive fish at the top of the social hierarchy can be a huge key to success all by itself.
Desjardini is a huge tang. IMO, even too big for my 320. There is no way anybody should put a Sailfin in a 70 gal tank.
 
Yea, I know that if I add another one that it cant be one that will grow really big. My Yellow tang is the same as yours. I had 2 damsels and one of them was picked on by the one I still have all this time. It actually tried to stay in the top back corner of the tank and hiding behind a heater to avoid the other one. But the other always tried to bully and chase it. The tang and also the flame angel would get in between them and kinda cattle drive the bully away from the other. Kinda cool really. So the Tang and angel seem to be very gentle and will stop fights.
 
OK then, Ill keep just the one. I need other fish in the tank for some bio load but I cant get anything thats too small due to the 2 bully fish and they kill small fish. Another dwarf angel would be great but I hear they should be together either. So Im lost as to what to add. I dont want damsels.
 
I would just leave the Yellow tang by himself. 70 gal is small. Yellow tang will not reach his full size but by himself, he will not be stressed by another tang. He will be small but can have a happy life, and get fat. Most likely, neither him or the new tang will be happy. That is why tang often get Ich, stressed when crowded.

I agree. I have three tangs in my 320. A Powder blue, Yellow and Purple. They are doing well but the Yellow and Purple does get on each other nerve. Something about the same shape. :)

Desjardini is a huge tang. IMO, even too big for my 320. There is no way anybody should put a Sailfin in a 70 gal tank.

she's not a permanent resident. its 100 gallons but she will have to move on to bigger and better tanks in the future. I already have plans for all my tangs with friends and my LFS since none can live in my tank indefinitely. But I hope to keep her as long as she isn't stressed since she's such a good influence on the community.
 
I have a large friendly foxface, but no tangs other than the bristletooth. The bristletooth is fairly new. I think I let her out of quarantine less than a month ago. I could probably catch her and put her back in the quarantine if you think it would help make introductions easier. The Scopas is 2-3x as big and I was asked to take him because he was an aggressive eater keeping her docile fish from eating. I do have an acclimation box and a tank full of semi-aggressive fish thanks to my murderous clowns.
The size difference may help you here. Removal may help but it may not. This is one of those things where you go with your gut and hope for the best. Not really useful I know, but I’d personally do an acclamation box for a few days then release about 10-15 minutes before lights out.

Quick Tang question. I have a Yellow in my 75 and would like to get another tang. What would your suggestion be if I can add another one. I had a 180 gallon years ago and had several types but more room for them.
I also have a Clown, blue damsel and a Flame angel. The clown and damsel are aggressive and killed a firefish I had bought. So I need larger fish to be able to defend themselves until they get used to. Id even get other dwarf angles but hear they would fight. Maybe anyway.

TIA

You could do a tomini or something small as mentioned but adding one tang to an existing is one of the worst case scenarios. Easy to fixate on each other.

dwarf angels can be mixed when they’re not conspecifics and multiple are added at the same time, generally speaking.
 
I hear ya and knew it would most likely be an issue but wanted to ask, The tank just needs more fish but if I get something too small it will be bullied and maybe killed. The clown and Damsel literally attack and bite. Hell they both bite my arm when Im working in the tank and even attack the siphon when doing water changes. Id love to get rid of them but they are the only fish that wont go into the trap.
 

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