Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

[4FordFamily]

It does not look like it can hurt!

 

[jaxteller007]

It does not look like it can hurt!

Well then I'll try it. There's a little smaller one already in there that the Betta has basically claimed as her home so hopefully this bigger one will let one of them feel more comfortable. Plus lights off and going to change some rock around a little.

 

[Tophers_reef]

I totally agree with the OP suggestions...I'm fairly new to the hobby and this is my second tank but thru the years I've learned that the most important key to taming their aggression is heavy feeding...especially when introducing new fish. I feed sometimes up to 10x a day for the first couple of weeks...

Here's my tang addiction...

how big is that tank?

 

[Kalinina]

Tang aggression towards aquarium reflection glass??

I have a powder brown tang who is constantly upset with darkened body trying to combat with his own reflection. I’m at a loss on how to stop this...other than putting him in a stock tank where there wouldnt be a reflection?

Any input would be appreciated!

 

[jaxteller007]

I'm running out of options for this sailfin. He's really going after the foxface. Still hasn't put any marks on him but he chases him a lot, I'm worried he's going to stress the foxface to death. Problem is while everyone is being quarantined, I don't have many options for the sailfin.
We have a 10G tank we are using for top off that could be set up quickly but that's so small I'm worried the sailfin would get unhealthy quick in a tank that small. We have our old 75G tank that we could set up relatively quickly if all I'm doing is making it basically a time out tank. But it takes up so much space in our house.

 

[Crustaceon]

I'm running out of options for this sailfin. He's really going after the foxface. Still hasn't put any marks on him but he chases him a lot, I'm worried he's going to stress the foxface to death. Problem is while everyone is being quarantined, I don't have many options for the sailfin.
We have a 10G tank we are using for top off that could be set up quickly but that's so small I'm worried the sailfin would get unhealthy quick in a tank that small. We have our old 75G tank that we could set up relatively quickly if all I'm doing is making it basically a time out tank. But it takes up so much space in our house.

Get yourself one of those little plastic parakeet mirrors and prop it up inside the QT. Both of your fish will be so distracted they’ll hardly notice each other. I had to do this over the course of three days to socialize a very small (1”) hippo tang into my 55g system with damsels and a very annoyed flame angel. (Tang police: I’ve been planning on upgrading and have a much larger system under construction, build thread to come).

 

[jaxteller007]

Get yourself one of those little plastic parakeet mirrors and prop it up inside the QT. Both of your fish will be so distracted they’ll hardly notice each other. I had to do this over the course of three days to socialize a very small (1”) hippo tang into my 55g system with damsels and a very annoyed flame angel. (Tang police: I’ve been planning on upgrading and have a much larger system under construction, build thread to come).

We have a 4 foot long mirror that we've used in front of the big tank before and it seemed to help a little. While I'm setting up the time out tank, we may set the big mirror up in front of the DT again and go lights out for a day or two. Only problem is the mirror get's all the fish's attention (the golden head goby definitely doesn't like seeing another one of him lol). But i reckon it will be ok for a day.

@4FordFamily what do you think? Would a 10G tank be ok for a timeout for our sailfin or do i need to suck it up and find a way to get the 75 set up until we can get a middle ground QT/time out tank set up?

 

[Crustaceon]

Pretty much what happens is the fish get so obsessed with their reflection that they forget about any new fish and after a few days, assume that new fish has been there all along and is nothing to worry about. You could probably use the mirror for a week and be ok.

 

[jaxteller007]

Pretty much what happens is the fish get so obsessed with their reflection that they forget about any new fish and after a few days, assume that new fish has been there all along and is nothing to worry about. You could probably use the mirror for a week and be ok.

Yea we've used it before with some success. But he's just getting more bully like. 4ford mentioned it could be partly boredom as they are the only 2 bigger fish in the tank. We were supposed to add a large blonde naso but that's on hold due to CV19 right now.
I will say, none of these guys are "new" to the tank. The sailfin and foxface have been in the tank together since like Feb.

 

[Crustaceon]

Kind of changes things when they stop liking each other.

 

[jaxteller007]

Kind of changes things when they stop liking each other.

Yea they came to our tank together and even went through QT together before they got to us. They were fine at first and even when we had a PBT they all 3 were ok together. Unfortunately the PBT died suddenly after a couple weeks and the longer it's went with just those 2 in the tank, the worse the sailfin has gotten.

With any luck I can set up one of these other tanks for timeout and get that larger blonde into our DT, let the sailfin "forget" and then introduce him back to the DT.

 

[jaxteller007]

If that doesn't work, we will look to re-home the sailfin.

 

[4FordFamily]

We have a 4 foot long mirror that we've used in front of the big tank before and it seemed to help a little. While I'm setting up the time out tank, we may set the big mirror up in front of the DT again and go lights out for a day or two. Only problem is the mirror get's all the fish's attention (the golden head goby definitely doesn't like seeing another one of him lol). But i reckon it will be ok for a day.

@4FordFamily what do you think? Would a 10G tank be ok for a timeout for our sailfin or do i need to suck it up and find a way to get the 75 set up until we can get a middle ground QT/time out tank set up?

A ten gallon I would not think to be a good option for a sailfin tang temporarily housed. I'd imagine it would overload even an established biofilter and die of ammonia poisoning or poor water conditions rather quickly.

 

[jaxteller007]

A ten gallon I would not think to be a good option for a sailfin tang temporarily housed. I'd imagine it would overload even an established biofilter and die of ammonia poisoning or poor water conditions rather quickly.

Looks like it will be finding a way to set up the 75 temporarily. That's if lights out (complete with sheet over front of tank since we are home 24/7 these days) for probably 2 days doesn't do the trick. At least it will probably help knock down some of the hair algae we have right now anyways.

Assuming we end up putting the sailfin in timeout, would you recommend introducing the new, bigger tang before bringing the sailfin back or at the same time?

 

[4FordFamily]

Looks like it will be finding a way to set up the 75 temporarily. That's if lights out (complete with sheet over front of tank since we are home 24/7 these days) for probably 2 days doesn't do the trick. At least it will probably help knock down some of the hair algae we have right now anyways.

Assuming we end up putting the sailfin in timeout, would you recommend introducing the new, bigger tang before bringing the sailfin back or at the same time?

You could add together, yes. As far as tank size, I'd say the minimum is a 29 gallon but if you watch parameters and monitor closely, perhaps a 20G.

 

[jaxteller007]

You could add together, yes. As far as tank size, I'd say the minimum is a 29 gallon but if you watch parameters and monitor closely, perhaps a 20G.

Gotcha. I was just thinking of options we currently had sitting around the house, without going and buying a new tank. But maybe shipments will start up and we can get another big fish in there soon. Cause if it comes down to choosing, I'm picking the foxface over the sailfin every day lol.

 

[jaxteller007]

Lights out and a mirror have seemed to calm him down a little. We'll see how long it lasts. I think our new plan is to re-home the sailfin with the guy getting us the blonde. And instead of a blonde, we'll do 2-3 yellows at the same time and then maybe/hopefully a PBT later. That would give us 2-3 yellows and a PBT and that'd be it for Tangs. I assume that's about the max for a 180, 6ft tank.
We absolutely love the foxface and marine betta and aren't getting rid of them. We'd probably be maxed out on larger fish at that point and look to add some small/medium fish.
What do you think @4FordFamily ?

 

[4FordFamily]

Lights out and a mirror have seemed to calm him down a little. We'll see how long it lasts. I think our new plan is to re-home the sailfin with the guy getting us the blonde. And instead of a blonde, we'll do 2-3 yellows at the same time and then maybe/hopefully a PBT later. That would give us 2-3 yellows and a PBT and that'd be it for Tangs. I assume that's about the max for a 180, 6ft tank.
We absolutely love the foxface and marine betta and aren't getting rid of them. We'd probably be maxed out on larger fish at that point and look to add some small/medium fish.
What do you think @4FordFamily ?

I would not do two zebrasoma tangs, I'd advise 3 different. It's a lot but it can be done with good nutrient export.

 

[jaxteller007]

I would not do two zebrasoma tangs, I'd advise 3 different. It's a lot but it can be done with good nutrient export.

I thought yellows were one that you could do 2-3 if you added them together? I could have sworn I've seen multiple tanks with 2-3 yellows but maybe I'm just having a brain fart moment.
As far as nutrient export, I think ours is pretty strong for our tank. Lots of CuC, skimmer rated much higher than our tank, biopellet reactor, and some other stuff. Not sure how much more I could add to control nutrients (other than me making sure I don't over feed of course haha).

Edit.. for nutrient control you're talking about having 2-3 zebrasoma tangs, the PBT and our current line up I think? I think we have a pretty good setup for that and can/will add some other additions down the road (like algae scrubber, we're already plumbed for one, UV sterilizer, etc).

So if I'm understanding you right, you're saying 1 zebrasoma (yellow, sailfin, etc), 1 tang of different family, and 1 more of a different family. Sorry for blowing you up with tons of questions.

 

[4FordFamily]

I thought yellows were one that you could do 2-3 if you added them together? I could have sworn I've seen multiple tanks with 2-3 yellows but maybe I'm just having a brain fart moment.
As far as nutrient export, I think ours is pretty strong for our tank. Lots of CuC, skimmer rated much higher than our tank, biopellet reactor, and some other stuff. Not sure how much more I could add to control nutrients (other than me making sure I don't over feed of course haha).

Edit.. for nutrient control you're talking about having 2-3 zebrasoma tangs, the PBT and our current line up I think? I think we have a pretty good setup for that and can/will add some other additions down the road (like algae scrubber, we're already plumbed for one, UV sterilizer, etc).

So if I'm understanding you right, you're saying 1 zebrasoma (yellow, sailfin, etc), 1 tang of different family, and 1 more of a different family. Sorry for blowing you up with tons of questions.

It can work out but it’s riskier than 3+or 1 zebrasoma tang. Sounds like a good plan for export!