Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

[mcbdz]

From what I know of foxfaces (I am by no means an expert) they seem to get left alone mostly because of those venomous fins. Although as mentioned in the OP, he has seen tangs stress them to death.

Agreed, I have always had good luck with them in the past. My main concern is the powder brown. I picked these as a group to hopefully make the add go well. Now the PB will be the one big fish and the foxface is smaller the the male antthais so may not even be noticed. We are trying to decide if we should try another Naso or other big reef safe fish to add them all as a group. This would require setting up another QT and Only have a couple 20gal since these are in the 55g and in therapeutic copper already. It always, somehow happens that I'll end up with all these extra tanks going all at once. UGH! But I really want to make sure these fish work together. Want this fish qt to get over with so we can go back to just a coral qt and be able to add more corals.

 

[jaxteller007]

@4FordFamily Lt Dan has a little junk in the trunk lol.

 

[4FordFamily]

@4FordFamily Lt Dan has a little junk in the trunk lol.

He has not missed any meals (me either)

 

[jaxteller007]

He has not missed any meals (me either)

He has not, nor have any of the others it seems lol. Me either.

 

[SimbaAnto]

After reading this thread, started my journey to mix one yellow tang and Sailfin Tang to my existing yellow tang.

Initially Established yellow tang harassed Sailfin a d yellow tang(new one). But with Tank isolation method and Mirror method was able to remove the aggression. Also adding nori sheets all day helped.

Isolated the new YT for about 3 weeks.
Introduced Sailfin and YT at the same time in the tank.
Initially some little fights with very little nipping of fins.

Now there are together. Will keep posted how it goes.

 

[4FordFamily]

After reading this thread, started my journey to mix one yellow tang and Sailfin Tang to my existing yellow tang.

Initially Established yellow tang harassed Sailfin a d yellow tang(new one). But with Tank isolation method and Mirror method was able to remove the aggression. Also adding nori sheets all day helped.

Isolated the new YT for about 3 weeks.
Introduced Sailfin and YT at the same time in the tank.
Initially some little fights with very little nipping of fins.

Now there are together. Will keep posted how it goes.

Thanks for sharing! Glad you’ve had success!

 

[SimbaAnto]

@4FordFamily Thank you so much for the valuable info. Good them see them together. Seperate Feeding stations.

Just waiting to see SailFin gets his fins fixed overtime.

 

[mfollen]

Hey tang gang,

Curious to see what you think about this potential acanthurus addition. I currently have a 4.5-5” powder blue hybrid and a 3” yellow scopas.

I’m considering adding an Achilles. My established powder blue is very chill, but I haven’t seen it with another acanthurus before.

Would it make most sense to add a smaller Achilles say 3.5-4” which may seem less of a threat? Or is it best to add the same size?

Thanks!

 

[mcbdz]

OK, I have had my tank up 2 yrs in March. 240gal 8 ft.. My tang gang right now is 1 yellow, 1 sailfin, 1 yellow eye kole and 1 blue hippo.Last year through rehoming and 1 ammonia incident I stirred up, I lost a 5" naso, 7" foxface and a 7" Banner butterfly- Tank boss). Been 6-8 months. Now that the tangs have grown they have little skiffs and the 3" sailfin is the only one with some torn fins on occasion. I decided my tank just looks like it was missing something since I lost the other fish so we decided we were going to add another batch of fish. (Hopefully the last time). Wanted another naso, another foxface and a powder brown. Plan was too qt and add all at one time for better chance of them getting along and spread out any aggression. Well wanted naso and foxface to be larger and powder brown to be small. LOL Of course that didn't work out. Foxeface is a tiny 2", Powder brown is a good 6" and the naso was 4". Sadly yes said was. Just lost naso in qt. He never would eat. I also have 3 females and 1 male lyretail anthias to be added at the same time.
Not sure what to do now. With the foxface so tiny and the powder brown possible going to be same size or largest( with the yellow) should I set up another tank and get another naso or, just try this batch or, should I put all in tank but pb tang in acclimation box for awhile?

Ok, Just finished with copper and starting the deworming part and just now had a naso tang come in. I will start qting it in the 20gal and have the others stay in observation until he is done. This is my question. Do I need an acclimation box and if so would all these fish go in it? or just the brown tang or both tang? Never Used one and will have to make one. Or should I just put the whole group in at once hoping the aggression will be spread out enough and maybe use a mirror, which I have used before with luck. Just nervous for this to work. My hopefully last fish addition and would hate to screw it up at the end.

 

[LovesDogs_CatsRokay]

@4FordFamily Yesterday I noticed that one of my yellow tangs has started bullying one of my other yellow tangs. Lots of chasing, a little nipping, and he’s not letting the other guy eat. There is a 3rd yellow tang in the tank that he is not bothering. So far there hasn't been any serious injury, just a nipped tail. I'm mostly worried that he's not getting any food. I've tried the mirror trick, but it's not helping. I'm going to try having multiple nori stations and see if that helps. Is there anything else I can try? The 3 yellow tangs were added at the same time several months ago, and were completely fine together from day one until yesterday. The tank is an 8ft 310 gallon peninsula. Other fish in the tank are a hippo tang, a desjardini sailfin tang, a magnificent foxface, and 2 wrasses.

 

[jaxteller007]

@4FordFamily Yesterday I noticed that one of my yellow tangs has started bullying one of my other yellow tangs. Lots of chasing, a little nipping, and he’s not letting the other guy eat. There is a 3rd yellow tang in the tank that he is not bothering. So far there hasn't been any serious injury, just a nipped tail. I'm mostly worried that he's not getting any food. I've tried the mirror trick, but it's not helping. I'm going to try having multiple nori stations and see if that helps. Is there anything else I can try? The 3 yellow tangs were added at the same time several months ago, and were completely fine together from day one until yesterday. The tank is an 8ft 310 gallon peninsula. Other fish in the tank are a hippo tang, a desjardini sailfin tang, a magnificent foxface, and 2 wrasses.

I would definitely try multiple feeding stations for Nori. I use anywhere from 2 to 4 separate spots for ours. You could try re-arranging some rock work as well to help them have to find new spots. We've done that sometimes as well to make them all look for new hiding spots.

 

[LovesDogs_CatsRokay]

I would definitely try multiple feeding stations for Nori. I use anywhere from 2 to 4 separate spots for ours. You could try re-arranging some rock work as well to help them have to find new spots. We've done that sometimes as well to make them all look for new hiding spots.

Thanks. I added 2 more nori stations, so 3 total. I also put in an egg crate barrier to separate them for a little while.

 

[hokiereef]

@4FordFamily I read and read-read this thread many times as I planned my reefer900 stocking list. I love Tangs and decided to go for one of each genus - Yellow, Hippo, Squaretail Bristletooth, and Powder Blue.
I quarantined them at the same time and introduced them all at once last Wednesday.
Powder Blue chased larger Yellow (who stands up for himself) and Squaretail for a while.

Seems like Yellow and PB have picked sides of the tanks and chase the other out if they venture into “their side”. Lots of backing up moves but no actual scalpel cuts. They continue this, but it seems like it might work long term.

What I am concerned about is now the PB chases the Hippo pretty badly. When first intro’ed they ignored each other. The chasing starts typically on “his side” of the tank. Hippo submits, but it seems to be escalating with the Hippo hiding a lot.

It’s been 10 days and nobody is dead or badly hurt, just nipped fins.
But reading about PB, I fear it will only get worse. At what point do I need to intervene and remove the PBT?


I have 3 spots of nori and make sure they are all full throughout the day.
I have not tried mirrors yet.

thank you for all of your wisdom!!!!!!!

 

[Trouble1375]

My issue isn't tang on tang aggression. We've had our Sailfin Tang for about 6 months - she was a rescue that a local reefer nursed back to health and then could not keep when he was moving unexpectedly for work and wanted her to go to someone with no tangs. We have added 9 fish after her - no more tangs with no issues, in fact she buddied up with the boxfish which is adorable because of the size difference. We've got a very happy tank overall. Last night we added a Green Filefish (about the same size as the boxfish) and she has been aggressively chasing it ever since and she has gone very dark in color. The Sailfin usually has grayish bands and they have turned completely black. So long as the filefish stays by the wavemaker, he seems to be ok but if he wanders he gets pushed back and the tang sits in front of him menacingly shaking her head and waving her tail. My only thought is that it was feeding time when I added the filefish last night and, probably out of not knowing where to go, he went towards the back of the tank where the Nori station is at and it was freshly filled. The tang shares the Nori station willingly with the boxfish and no-one else seems interested it going by it they just catch the bits that the tang throws around.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Hello to you all,
I’m in the process of a new tank build and looking for tang advice. My display is a IM 150 EXT(48x36x20). I’m going to follow the WWC/BRS Hybrid method of cycling, with adding fish well before lights and coral. I’m looking for utilitarian fish to add in the beginning (tangs and wrasses) followed by decor fish as the tank matures.

Due to the size of my system, I know I’m a bit limited on tang choices. If it was a perfect world I would have a Dussumieri and Fowleri, but that’s not happening. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I’ll have to choose from the Bristletooth and Zebrasoma families with a possible one or two of the smaller Acanthurus to be considered.

I’m really trying to be choosy on what is going into my system and when , with also trying to keep a balance of attitudes. Before we get to the question at hand, here is my potential fish list at the moment:

Tank to be a mixed reef heavier on LPS and encrusting..
3 tangs ( maybe) utilitarian and somewhat uncommon.
2 Tile Fish
5 ventralus Anthias
A few flasher/fairy Wrasses mainly on the smaller side, with a few larger maybe in the mix.
A leopard Wrasse( miss my potters)
3-5 Cardinals (bang. )
And then some various small fish, ( gobies/blennies..

So tangs are going to be the big boys of the tank and for that reason I would prefer some pop, a good working attitude and no quibbling with tank mates as some of the additions are made.
If you could, please help me make a decision on these as I find myself going around in circles trying to decide and when to add which.

for the Bristletooth family I am currently looking at:
Flame Tip
White Tail
Orange Striped

Zebrasoma Family:
Purple
Gem
Koi

Acanthurus :
This is a short list as most get to big for my system.
Macusalips
Goldrim

I would like to add the three ( one of each FaM. ) in the beginning before lights and coral, hopefully to help avoid an ugly stage in my cycle.

thoughts?

 

[4FordFamily]

Hello to you all,
I’m in the process of a new tank build and looking for tang advice. My display is a IM 150 EXT(48x36x20). I’m going to follow the WWC/BRS Hybrid method of cycling, with adding fish well before lights and coral. I’m looking for utilitarian fish to add in the beginning (tangs and wrasses) followed by decor fish as the tank matures.

Due to the size of my system, I know I’m a bit limited on tang choices. If it was a perfect world I would have a Dussumieri and Fowleri, but that’s not happening. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I’ll have to choose from the Bristletooth and Zebrasoma families with a possible one or two of the smaller Acanthurus to be considered.

I’m really trying to be choosy on what is going into my system and when , with also trying to keep a balance of attitudes. Before we get to the question at hand, here is my potential fish list at the moment:

Tank to be a mixed reef heavier on LPS and encrusting..
3 tangs ( maybe) utilitarian and somewhat uncommon.
2 Tile Fish
5 ventralus Anthias
A few flasher/fairy Wrasses mainly on the smaller side, with a few larger maybe in the mix.
A leopard Wrasse( miss my potters)
3-5 Cardinals (bang. )
And then some various small fish, ( gobies/blennies..

So tangs are going to be the big boys of the tank and for that reason I would prefer some pop, a good working attitude and no quibbling with tank mates as some of the additions are made.
If you could, please help me make a decision on these as I find myself going around in circles trying to decide and when to add which.

for the Bristletooth family I am currently looking at:
Flame Tip
White Tail
Orange Striped

Zebrasoma Family:
Purple
Gem
Koi

Acanthurus :
This is a short list as most get to big for my system.
Macusalips
Goldrim

I would like to add the three ( one of each FaM. ) in the beginning before lights and coral, hopefully to help avoid an ugly stage in my cycle.

thoughts?

Hello,

Sounds like a nice build, you'll have to keep us updated with your build thread!

Regarding your selections, I will help with tangs.

Bristletooth: I like the "flame tip" of your options for a 4 foot tank. White tail can be surly (as far as bristletooth tangs go) so can Kole. I don't have much experience with orange-striped (though close cousin of Kole) -- I have noticed that very few look any better than the Kole -- despite the few photos online of extravagant-looking bristletooth tangs. That's just an aesthetic comment.

From Zebrasoma: I think you could do any of these, but of them the Gem is going to get largest and will likely outgrow the tank. They get almost as large as Sailfin and can be somewhat surly as well. Mine throws his weight around a lot, so does @HotRocks (and his is small).

For acanthurus, i'd advise against any. The only possible exception being a convict tang. Most other acanthurus tangs really need 6 feet of swimming space, and they are even more prone to disease/aggression in shorter living quarters. There are always those that try it anyway, but I at least wanted to share my .02.

If added together, you could do 2 bristletooth or 2 zebrasoma and 1 of the others -- typically. It's always a gamble mixing tangs but I think your odds are good if added concurrently and the tank is busy with other inhabitants (you mention adding wrasse and others first).

For utility, bristletooth are the best cleaners, some zebrasoma can be OK -- but really tangs aren't as useful as they're sold for the purpose of cleaning. Acanthurus tangs are almost solely for aesthetics/viewing pleasure in home aquaria.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Hello,

Sounds like a nice build, you'll have to keep us updated with your build thread!

Regarding your selections, I will help with tangs.

Bristletooth: I like the "flame tip" of your options for a 4 foot tank. White tail can be surly (as far as bristletooth tangs go) so can Kole. I don't have much experience with orange-striped (though close cousin of Kole) -- I have noticed that very few look any better than the Kole -- despite the few photos online of extravagant-looking bristletooth tangs. That's just an aesthetic comment.

From Zebrasoma: I think you could do any of these, but of them the Gem is going to get largest and will likely outgrow the tank. They get almost as large as Sailfin and can be somewhat surly as well. Mine throws his weight around a lot, so does @HotRocks (and his is small).

For acanthurus, i'd advise against any. The only possible exception being a convict tang. Most other acanthurus tangs really need 6 feet of swimming space, and they are even more prone to disease/aggression in shorter living quarters. There are always those that try it anyway, but I at least wanted to share my .02.

If added together, you could do 2 bristletooth or 2 zebrasoma and 1 of the others -- typically. It's always a gamble mixing tangs but I think your odds are good if added concurrently and the tank is busy with other inhabitants (you mention adding wrasse and others first).

For utility, bristletooth are the best cleaners, some zebrasoma can be OK -- but really tangs aren't as useful as they're sold for the purpose of cleaning. Acanthurus tangs are almost solely for aesthetics/viewing pleasure in home aquaria.

Ford,
Thank you for the reply and I respect your knowledge. I’ve been following your builds since the early days of R2R. You’ve had some amazing tanks over the years.
I agree with the thoughts on Acanthurus and also the cleaning abilities of the tangs. I had hoped that maybe a macusalips might work, but I trust your judgement and would regret losing a fish due to my poor decision. If you could think of another unusual tang that might work, please advise. Thank you again.

 

[oldreefer66]

@4FordFamily

I am currently waiting for a custom tank to arrive (60" x 24" x 24"). My plan is add some smaller fish initially (2 ocellaris, 2 mandarins, 2 flame hawks, several royal grammas, several springerii damsels, and several firefish). To these I would like to add at least one tang for algae control. I would like to pick from the following list: powder blue, yellow tang, purple tang, and gem tang. My preference is to add the PBT by itself. I know the tank is a bit small for the powder blue but I would crank the flow to make things as ideal as possible for him. If you think it unwise to have the PBT as the sole tang would a PBT work better with a YT and PT? Would a sole Gem Tang be better than any alternative?

Thanks, in advance, for the advice!
Michael

 

[shred5]

@4FordFamily

I am currently waiting for a custom tank to arrive (60" x 24" x 24"). My plan is add some smaller fish initially (2 ocellaris, 2 mandarins, 2 flame hawks, several royal grammas, several springerii damsels, and several firefish). To these I would like to add at least one tang for algae control. I would like to pick from the following list: powder blue, yellow tang, purple tang, and gem tang. My preference is to add the PBT by itself. I know the tank is a bit small for the powder blue but I would crank the flow to make things as ideal as possible for him. If you think it unwise to have the PBT as the sole tang would a PBT work better with a YT and PT? Would a sole Gem Tang be better than any alternative?

Thanks, in advance, for the advice!
Michael

Personally Powder blue tangs in my opinion are one of the nastiest, just out right mean. Personally best alone and I would avoid it all together. They also seem more acceptable to diseases to like ich .

Out of all the tangs I have had the Kole is the best algae eater I have had and one of the calmer ones but can sometimes be aggressive to other fish. They also seem more hardy.

I have also had little issue with purple tangs.

Most tangs are ok as a single fish though. Most issues I have had is either multiple tangs or established tang with new introductions.

 

[mdrobc13]

Personally Powder blue tangs in my opinion are one of the nastiest, just out right mean. Personally best alone and I would avoid it all together. They also seem more acceptable to diseases to like ich .

Out of all the tangs I have had the Kole is the best algae eater I have had and one of the calmer ones but can sometimes be aggressive to other fish. They also seem more hardy.

I have also had little issue with purple tangs.

Most tangs are ok as a single fish though. Most issues I have had is either multiple tangs or established tang with new introductions.

@4FordFamily

I am currently waiting for a custom tank to arrive (60" x 24" x 24"). My plan is add some smaller fish initially (2 ocellaris, 2 mandarins, 2 flame hawks, several royal grammas, several springerii damsels, and several firefish). To these I would like to add at least one tang for algae control. I would like to pick from the following list: powder blue, yellow tang, purple tang, and gem tang. My preference is to add the PBT by itself. I know the tank is a bit small for the powder blue but I would crank the flow to make things as ideal as possible for him. If you think it unwise to have the PBT as the sole tang would a PBT work better with a YT and PT? Would a sole Gem Tang be better than any alternative?

Thanks, in advance, for the advice!
Michael

Hmm..I have multiple tangs in my 130 and they all work well. My tangs include a Sailfin, Purple, Tonami, Naso, and yes the dreaded Powder Blue Tang. So far mostly success with my multi-Tang setups. Keys I've found are space....have to have good space for them 100gal or better as they need space for territory and for some like Clown/Sohal/PBT they need swimming space. They are aggressive swimmers and always on the move which may limit your choices but may also contribute to their perceived aggression. Also order of addition is key...most aggressive always add last and/or like fish as the same time I've found works well. So my order of addition for recent tank was Yellow and Purple Tang, then Tonami, Sailfin, Purple Tang, and last added Naso. Wasn't fully planned this way as some fished did not make it....the order changed a bit. As for PBT and ich...luckily mine has had no signs. I did QT him for about 45 days and used PraziPro and also Copper Safe to ensure he was good to go...but also having them well fed and happy and less stressed seems to help and so far 2/3 of my PBT's have been ich free!