TANG WAR! God I Love This

[Shooter6]

Good morning everyone. Thought I would start over here, and try to clear the air a little on this thread. I’m sure it’s the way I describe things that has led a few to maybe think I am shooting from the hip and not approaching my reef husbandry with a proper adult attitude, but I promise you, the exact opposite is the case. I firmly believe that when humans start trying to tinker too much with nature, they will usually screw it up. My philosophy is more watch and observe and only get involved when nature is having problems making things work without a little help. If I have said things in a way that appears flippant about this, I truly apologize.

To start with, I don’t think four fish in the QT are too many, because there is only approximately 5” of fish in a 29 gallon tank. I actually picked four to, in a way, force me to pay closer attention to all aspects of aquarium maintenance and keep the tank healthy. Having owned a fish aquarium business, I’ve seen and had 30 1” guppies share a 20 gallon tank. It works as long as you keep the tank and water clean. That’s what I’m focusing on by doing this. Relearning how to manage a system Properly.

As far as watching two tangs establish the tank pecking order, that’s what I expected to see and they did it beautifully. The Orange Shoulder vied for dominance, the Tomimi put him in his place and now the tank hierarchy is in place and the tank is happy. They swim around together, share the same hiding place at night, eat side by side and appear to be the best of buddies. Nature worked like it should and I all I had to do was just sit back and have a great time watching it evolve. Even the little clowns get in that same hiding place with them. Quite amazing to watch. I love all of the suggestions everyone had to help mitigate tank aggression and I now have them all ready if I need them. If the aggression had escalated, I would have been ready to take action.

As far as settling up my QT and putting in fish, even before I got my DT, that was the plan All along. You might say this was my practice “starter“ tank to get myself back in the flow of managing an aquarium system before i got the big tank with all the more complicated equipment. It is allowing me the ability to see and manage a small system so I will be ready to take on the big one and make fewer mistakes when that time comes. The size, scale and number of fish in this small system is perfect for getting me geared up for the big one when it gets here.

I know I do tend to rattle on about every little thing I see and if I appeared to be stirring the pot with the two tangs or not caring about their well being, I apologize. In the future I will try to more thoroughly explain why and how I am doing things the way I do. Will I make mistakes, absolutely. That’s part of the game and why I’m on this forum. To learn from others to help me minimize those mistakes. I am just always amazed at how nature works and sometimes don’t express it correctly. I will try to do better. The safety and health of the critters I choose to keep will always be the top priority.

Jetson

From everyone of your post so far I expect to see many more having to do with disease,algae,equipment, fish,ect,ect.
I hope for your livestock this doesn't play out as it appears though!

 

[Shooter6]

This is kind of a silly statement at face value.

29g is PLENTY large enough for These for fish...

Hearding behavior doesn't kill fish.


The pearl clutching so far has me actually laughing.

Actually that statement is very close to the truth.
These fish traveled the world after being snatched out of their home by a diver. Thrown in countless storage tanks with random fish. Arrived at your purchase location, picked out by you, then thrown together in your brand new qt.

If aggression isn't the killer, ammonia probably will be.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Denial of wrongdoing thru paragraphs of justifications

Tangs won't see the year 2023, unfortunately, as they grow and get more stressed

What is the egregious wrongdoing here?

 

[Shooter6]

What is the egregious wrongdoing here?

2 tangs in a small qt left to fight it out. The proper way would have been a 2 10-20g next to each other or even better a 40g breeder with a divider so they each have a safe area to get used to each other.

Also only 2 tangs in a small system keeps the aggression between the 2. If your adding multiple tangs its best to do so with 4+ so the aggression is spread across the pack.
Mirrors are also very beneficial in getting them to forget about each other.

You basically put a blood and crip in a 8x8 cell each armed with knifes, and then bragged about it.

This brings out backlash from individuals here who care about the well being of the animals .

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

2 tangs in a small qt left to fight it out. The proper way would have been a 2 10-20g next to each other or even better a 40g breeder with a divider so they each have a safe area to get used to each other

.

A 29g QT is Plenty large enough for 5-7" of fish.

A 20 gallon long is often said to be The minimum size for a QT of a tang, these are Small/medium at Best. 29 gallon is the exact same footprint. Add an extra 40% height. There is NOTHING wrong with the size of that qt vs inhabitants.

What’s the minimum QT tank size for Tangs?

They’ll only be spending 1-2 months in the tank but still I want them to have enough room.

www.reef2reef.com

Left to fight it out?? Where did the OP say they were left to fight it out.

Directly quoting the second paragraph of the original post
".
There was no outright fighting, but if the Tomimi came out to swim around the Orange Shoulder would run him back to the PVC "


The fish were given plenty of hiding areas as well as being observed. Op Also mentioned getting a divider and using other sorts of tricks if the apparent aggression didn't stop. That's the Opposite of "Left to fight it out"

Also only 2 tangs in a small system keeps the aggression between the 2. If your adding multiple tangs its best to do so with 4+ so the aggression is spread across the pack.
Mirrors are also very beneficial in getting them to forget about each other.

Again, 29g not too small. You're talking a big game, but have you ever actually introduced tangs together, much less other fish? This isn't only Tang specific. Many fish will have displays and chasing while a hierarchy is figured out. This happens in quarantine, This happens in display tanks, This happens if you change your rock around.... Posturing and working out hierarchy is not putting the other fish in danger, until it is.

You basically put a blood and crip in a 8x8 cell each armed with knifes, and then bragged about it.

Again, Silly. OP Never said there was biting, tail slapping, fin nipping... Those are WEAPONS and are actual aggression.

Tbh that orange shoulder Could probably kill all 3 other fish in that tank if it Wanted to.

The Title of this thread was Ill worded and is clearly triggering people. Read what is Actually going on. Compare it against quarantine. Best practice. What do you find?

You're editorializing and finding issue where there is none.

This brings out backlash from individuals here who care about the well being of the animals .

So if someone doesn't agree with you, they don't care about the animals?

 

[i cant think]

Does the mirror trick not work for anyone else?
I just leave my C. binotatus to do his job as the foxface puts a stop to all fights because of this, no matter what, the tang no longer uses the mirror trick so I wonder if the foxface has put him in his place.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Does the mirror trick not work for anyone else?

The only fish I have ever had actually distracted by the mirror and help with aggression with was a flame angel.. that was also short lived. Mirror went away, flame lit right back up.

 

[i cant think]

The only fish I have ever had actually distracted by the mirror and help with aggression with was a flame angel.. that was also short lived. Mirror went away, flame lit right back up.

Yeah, this is what happened with me. I haven’t tried the mirror trick in a while as the tang got interested but later ignored it (It was meant for the wrasses you try get some nice colours visible).

 

[AKL1950]

Man, watching this post develop is more fun than watching the two tangs. I have to say, I appreciate all comments and even those that are a bit negative. I don’t mind learning From whatever source.

I decided to first try the mirror trick. That seemed easier than trying to separate the two tangs and stress everyone out. Have to admit, I laughed my butt off when I put it up. Both tangs swimming side by side, each banging their noses on the glass to get at their reflection. Looks like a two v two aerial dog fight. Guess that’s better since they aren’t butting each other.

There is something I want to research now having watched this. The mirror is to keep them from being aggressive toward each other by giving them an alternative. But, does it do anything to reduce their aggression? At first thought about it, it seems it might actually increase their aggressive nature by giving them someone who looks and acts exactly like they do. That may reduce the stress of the other occupants, but seems it will probably increase the stress of the aggressor. That stress will be sensed by everyone and increase the overall tank stress. Take away the mirror and now the aggressor is all pumped up looking for a fight. So, what am I missing here? Am I over thinking this?

Jetson

 

[Tcook]

I used a mirror when my Watanabe was getting aggressive with my bellus angel and it seemed to help. Probably just smoothed things over while the pecking order was finally established. I think the mirror is a good short term diversion.

 

[Dave1993]

mirror trick has worked for me twice for both my tangs

 

[Shooter6]

A 29g QT is Plenty large enough for 5-7" of fish.

A 20 gallon long is often said to be The minimum size for a QT of a tang, these are Small/medium at Best. 29 gallon is the exact same footprint. Add an extra 40% height. There is NOTHING wrong with the size of that qt vs inhabitants.

What’s the minimum QT tank size for Tangs?

They’ll only be spending 1-2 months in the tank but still I want them to have enough room.

www.reef2reef.com

Left to fight it out?? Where did the OP say they were left to fight it out.

Directly quoting the second paragraph of the original post
".
There was no outright fighting, but if the Tomimi came out to swim around the Orange Shoulder would run him back to the PVC "


The fish were given plenty of hiding areas as well as being observed. Op Also mentioned getting a divider and using other sorts of tricks if the apparent aggression didn't stop. That's the Opposite of "Left to fight it out"

Again, 29g not too small. You're talking a big game, but have you ever actually introduced tangs together, much less other fish? This isn't only Tang specific. Many fish will have displays and chasing while a hierarchy is figured out. This happens in quarantine, This happens in display tanks, This happens if you change your rock around.... Posturing and working out hierarchy is not putting the other fish in danger, until it is.



Again, Silly. OP Never said there was biting, tail slapping, fin nipping... Those are WEAPONS and are actual aggression.

Tbh that orange shoulder Could probably kill all 3 other fish in that tank if it Wanted to.

The Title of this thread was Ill worded and is clearly triggering people. Read what is Actually going on. Compare it against quarantine. Best practice. What do you find?

You're editorializing and finding issue where there is none.





So if someone doesn't agree with you, they don't care about the animals?

First 20g for a single tang is fine in the size the op stated.
Therefore 2 in a 40g is best.
Second that inch per gallon is a bunch of b.s. carryover from freshwater. It's all about the pollution a particular fish creates, stress, keeping water parameters in check ect.
Third DID YOU BOTHER TO READ THE TITLE OF THE POST? (TANG WARS, GOD I LOVE THIS).
4TH op did not post pics of the setup so you have no idea if there were plenty of hiding spaces. Lastly my last system, a 180g display had 13 tangs in it which I can send videos of to verify this. So NO I AM NOT TALKING BIG, I've been keeping reefs since 1988. And have lived it.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

First 20g for a single tang is fine in the size the op stated.
Therefore 2 in a 40g is best.
Second that inch per gallon is a bunch of b.s. carryover from freshwater. It's all about the pollution a particular fish creates, stress, keeping water parameters in check ect.
Third DID YOU BOTHER TO READ THE TITLE OF THE POST? (TANG WARS, GOD I LOVE THIS).
4TH op did not post pics of the setup so you have no idea if there were plenty of hiding spaces. Lastly my last system, a 180g display had 13 tangs in it which I can send videos of to verify this. So NO I AM NOT TALKING BIG, I've been keeping reefs since 1988. And have lived it.

So essentially Yes, you read the title, got triggered and are spouting off. Got it.

Still nothing wrong here since 1988.

The pics are Literally in first post. Did you happen to read OP's follow up meant to unbunch all the panties that got ruffled??

 

[i cant think]

First 20g for a single tang is fine in the size the op stated.
Therefore 2 in a 40g is best.
Second that inch per gallon is a bunch of b.s. carryover from freshwater. It's all about the pollution a particular fish creates, stress, keeping water parameters in check ect.
Third DID YOU BOTHER TO READ THE TITLE OF THE POST? (TANG WARS, GOD I LOVE THIS).
4TH op did not post pics of the setup so you have no idea if there were plenty of hiding spaces. Lastly my last system, a 180g display had 13 tangs in it which I can send videos of to verify this. So NO I AM NOT TALKING BIG, I've been keeping reefs since 1988. And have lived it.

I had 2 “large” growing tangs in a 3’ tank. Am I bad? No, I knew the size these tangs got (Scopas & a Blue Hippo - Known over here as a Regal) and it was temporary. The OP knows what they’re facing also did you miss the part where it said QT tank?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Roger! I'll get off your lawn now.