Tangs and ich

justmee · Jan 20, 2019

Seems like all the tangs that I’ve purchased from LFS has ich, not once in my entire 10 years in the hobby have I purchased an ich free tang from a LFS. Is this true for everyone?

Reason I’m asking is, why are LFS selling tangs when they know tangs have ich?? They treat their tanks with medication and copper to cover up the problem. It’s setup for someone new entering into the hobby to fail. Are the LFS helping the industry or just in it for the money...??

I’m not trying to spark a debate, I’m just curious. Thanks.

ihavecrabs · Jan 21, 2019

Seems to be a wholesaler and distributer issue in the US. We are guessing that the systems are not restarted often enough allowing for ich to sustain and infest their systems.

Ich and Velvet are pretty normal now-a-days in the US due to this. You'll be hard-pressed to find a healthy non-ich/velvet fish especially if the LFS is running non-therapeutic levels of copper to suppress it.

Geebs19 · Jan 21, 2019

The LFS may not know as their supplier is most likely using meds in their systems to suppress anything.

justmee · Jan 21, 2019

Geebs19 said:
The LFS may not know as their supplier is most likely using meds in their systems to suppress anything.

Oh, I’m pretty sure the LFS knows or they wouldn’t be treating their tanks with medication and copper. Plus, if they don’t treat their tanks, their lost will keep them from sustaining their business...

dylana407 · Jan 21, 2019

I bought my PBT from Sea In The City here in Orlando, no ick. Although, I only had it for 4 months. I bought a hippo tank from Ocean Direct before that, it was eaten by my haddoni after 3 days, none of my fish has ick. Just my luck maybe.

kichimark · Jan 21, 2019

I think many LFS know there are certain diseases in their tanks but for many it is about making a sale. There are only a few LFS that I trust and even then I still take certain precautions depending on what I buy. I remember going to new stores and asking questions I already knew the answers to determine their knowledge and if they just want to make a sale.

Gablami · Jan 21, 2019

I think it’s easy to paint all LFS as “in it for the money” when they sell fish that have ich, but if you consider the realities of running a business, paying bills and putting food on your family’s table, it’s near impossible to run a LFS without having ich in the system.

You’ve got these huge systems plumbed together, hundreds of gallons each, and you have dozens of fish selling daily, coming and going. Fish are coming in from a wholeseller and one (or most) have ich. What are you going to do? Run fallow for 76 days and watch your business crash?

No, you’re going to run hypo and/or copper. You’re going to let customers know that it’s their job to take care of the ich. Or you’re going to tell customers that it’s impossible to have a ich free system (totally a lie).

You may think, why doesn’t the store tank transfer, or prophylactically treat all fish before selling them? The amount of time and effort that takes to make it worthwhile from a business perspective, would increase the price of fish substantially. There is a local guy who has tried to do this, and I would say, relatively successfully. He did it in his garage, and established quite a following. He recently started an LFS. And some ich got through. Once you have a store and have to pay rent, going fallow or taking down systems to clear ich is not possible. Just like aiptasia, and other pests in the trade.

I commend @Humblefish for his efforts to provide healthy fish to the hobby. I think it is easier said than done, and even with the label “healthy fish” it is still the reefers job to ensure and protect his or her tank inhabitants.

Shooter6 · Jan 21, 2019

justmee said:
Oh, I’m pretty sure the LFS knows or they wouldn’t be treating their tanks with medication and copper. Plus, if they don’t treat their tanks, their lost will keep them from sustaining their business...

My local lfs does not treat their tanks with copper. At least the one i buy from. I know this for a fact because the tanks holding fish are running off the same sump as some frag tanks.

Frtdrmrose7 · Jan 21, 2019

dylana407 said:
I bought my PBT from Sea In The City here in Orlando, no ick. Although, I only had it for 4 months. I bought a hippo tank from Ocean Direct before that, it was eaten by my haddoni after 3 days, none of my fish has ick. Just my luck maybe.

Marcy at Sea in the City does her best to keep disease free fish, I typically shop there also but I still QT all fish.

WickedCZ4A · Jan 21, 2019

Certain tangs are super prone to Ich. Like the Powder Blue for example.
I think it's about finding an LFS you really trust and also examining and watching the tang closely before buying.

I like the fact that my LFS uses copper and prazi on their fish holding tanks. The longer they sit, the better they will get assuming they're eating well.

I always watch the fish I'm interested in buying for at least a few minutes uninterrupted to look for any signs of disease such as flashing.
Also I always ask for the employee to feed the fish to see their alertness and feeding response.

kichimark · Jan 21, 2019

WickedCZ4A said:
Certain tangs are super prone to Ich. Like the Powder Blue for example.
I think it's about finding an LFS you really trust and also examining and watching the tang closely before buying.

I like the fact that my LFS uses copper and prazi on their fish holding tanks. The longer they sit, the better they will get assuming they're eating well.

I always watch the fish I'm interested in buying for at least a few minutes uninterrupted to look for any signs of disease such as flashing.
Also I always ask for the employee to feed the fish to see their alertness and feeding response.

That is great and super advice for anyone, especially new folks. Something like this is usually learned from experience.

This leads me to another thing. Why not ask potential buyers of their setup or experience and at least give some warning/advice. I know this may cut into "sales" but something like this is not common (at least in S. Cal) and if someone were to initially ask (there is one and he is my main LFS even though he isn't too local) then that establishment would overtime possibly obtain loyal customers.

ca1ore · Jan 21, 2019

Shooter6 said:
My local lfs does not treat their tanks with copper. At least the one i buy from. I know this for a fact because the tanks holding fish are running off the same sump as some frag tanks.

.... that is highly problematic. There’s a very good reason why fish and invert systems should be independent.

ca1ore · Jan 21, 2019

Of course the LFS is in it for the money LOL ..... well, unless they’ve set themselves up as a non-profit. Using therapeutic levels of copper is very common, and not disqualifying ..... at least not for me. Probably the vast majority of fish that come through the industry supply chain have been exposed to ich, maybe even velvet. Any LFS (or wholesaler) that does nothing to suppress a breakout will soon find themselves out of business. That is why a period of QT is so important now. You don’t have to blast the fish with a cocktail of meds necessarily, but keeping it isolated to ease acclimation is something all reefers should do. I would als suggest that folks that do not QT probably already have latent ich in their system. That every tang bought has ich may be your ‘fault’ not the LFS.

PatW · Jan 21, 2019

Tangs are notoriously prone to ich. If you want to keep tangs, you should either quarantine them for a good time interval or prophylactically treat them. Ich takes awhile to really hurt a fish, but velvet can wipe out a tank in a short time. Given the greater prevalence of velvet, not using a quarantine protocol is playing Russian roulette.