Tangs disease ID

[yellow05gt]

I’m not sure what’s going on in my tank right now. First the Pilot Fish, and now my tangs. Is this a bad case of Ich? I started treating prazi a couple days ago in the display tank.

@vetteguy53081
@Jay Hemdal

 

[Gareth elliott]

From number spots it looks to be marine velvet disease. Prazipro is not going to treat this particular disease. There are no real reefsafe treatments for either ich or velvet. Copper is the only readily available treatment.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I’m not sure what’s going on in my tank right now. First the Pilot Fish, and now my tangs. Is this a bad case of Ich? I started treating prazi a couple days ago in the display tank.

@vetteguy53081
@Jay Hemdal

The powder blue seems to have a bad case of ich, but that takes time to develop over days, did you see spots showing up gradually? Velvet causes rapid breathing and death in a few days. If the fish are still eating, it isn’t velvet.
If the spots went from zero to this overnight, then something else is going on. Clearer pictures and video would be important in making a diagnosis.

Tying in with the issue with the pilotfish, weirdly, that fish didn’t seem to show any ich. moving it out now, with possible ich in the tank, you want to avoid spreading the ich….

Jay

 

[yellow05gt]

The powder blue seems to have a bad case of ich, but that takes time to develop over days, did you see spots showing up gradually? Velvet causes rapid breathing and death in a few days. If the fish are still eating, it isn’t velvet.
If the spots went from zero to this overnight, then something else is going on. Clearer pictures and video would be important in making a diagnosis.
Jay

They have had a little for a few days, but nothing crazy. I’ve added a few new fish so I figured the stress has just made them build up. They are all eating like normal with whatever I put in the tank. Here’s a video of the powder blue.

 

[MnFish1]

I think the 'speed' of the development is key - as well as other symptoms as @Jay Hemdal said. Either way - I would consider setting up a hospital tank though my guess its going to be hard with that many fish. At least be prepared with copper, and the equipment you will need. So sorry to see your fish sick. It would seem to me that either way - you're going to need some copper. I know your signature says 'mixed reef' - I assume you have coral - which makes hypo salinity difficult - which can help for CI. Keep us posted!! Good luck

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

They have had a little for a few days, but nothing crazy. I’ve added a few new fish so I figured the stress has just made them build up. They are all eating like normal with whatever I put in the tank. Here’s a video of the powder blue.

The PBT has ich, but is breathing too fast. That either means it has had the ich for quite some time or it also has velvet.

Oddly, the fish in the background don't seem as adversely affected (yet).

I'm not sure what your solution to this can be. That's a bunch of large, active fish to try and move into a quarantine tank and dose with copper (the best choice). Not sure what invertebrates are in your DT, so I don't know what options you have treating them in there. Hyposalinity will work on ich, but not on velvet.

Jay

 

[yellow05gt]

The PBT has ich, but is breathing too fast. That either means it has had the ich for quite some time or it also has velvet.

Oddly, the fish in the background don't seem as adversely affected (yet).

I'm not sure what your solution to this can be. That's a bunch of large, active fish to try and move into a quarantine tank and dose with copper (the best choice). Not sure what invertebrates are in your DT, so I don't know what options you have treating them in there. Hyposalinity will work on ich, but not on velvet.

Jay

I have some basic corals and that’s about it. Some hammers and some plating corals. Some snails and some rock flowers are the only inverts I have. The big Blonde Naso, tusk, and mimic tang we’re all just added yesterday. But all the other fish in the background have been in for a while and aren’t showing any signs.

 

[kadamik]

They have had a little for a few days, but nothing crazy. I’ve added a few new fish so I figured the stress has just made them build up. They are all eating like normal with whatever I put in the tank. Here’s a video of the powder blue.

@Jay Hemdal
What is the best way to determine if a fish is breathing fast. Is there a range that you can share that is acceptable and when it is too fast. Does it change for different fish, and does it change for the size of the fish?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal
What is the best way to determine if a fish is breathing fast. Is there a range that you can share that is acceptable and when it is too fast. Does it change for different fish, and does it change for the size of the fish?

Well, as they say, "It's complicated" (grin).

In general, water temperature changes respiration rates in a linear slope, while size changes it on a log scale....warmer water causes fish to breath a bit faster, but small fish breath a lot faster than larger fish of the same species. I find it easiest to measure the number of gill beats in 15 seconds, and then multiply by 4. Do that a few times and then average the number.

In my yet-to-be published disease book, I have a whole section on respiration rates. It has imbedded images and charts, so I can't post it here, but here is the intro text to that section:

Respiration rates

Aquarists are warned throughout this book about rapid breathing in their fish as a symptom of potential problems, yet few know just what “rapid” is. Obviously, fish kept in warmer water or those with gill disease will respire more rapidly. Actively swimming fish respire faster than sedentary ones. Less obvious is that larger fish respire more slowly and, in some cases, high ammonia levels will cause a fish to respire more slowly than normal. While there is some difference between species, (Chinese algae eaters will breathe twice as fast as any other fish their size) most tropical fish of the size kept in smaller aquariums should breathe at a rate of between 70 and 120 gill beats per minute. Relative respiration rate is the most important value – capturing the respiration rate of your fish when they are known to be healthy, gives you a baseline to compare to if you later suspect a problem. Not having this baseline data is an issue for newly acquired fish, so using the information below may serve as a secondary reference.


Fish may exhibit a variety of respiration forms in addition to the actual rate itself:

Mouth open respiration – may be a sign of gill disease or toxic compounds in the water.
Rapid, shallow respiration – may be signs as above, or just a result of high activity level.
Coughing – a result of high levels of particulates in the water, or gill parasites.
Gasping at surface – usually seen in freshwater fish under low oxygen conditions. Marine fish will usually not show this symptom, even if they have respiratory issues.
Facing into water flow – This is how marine fish often respond to respiratory issues.
Slow, deep respiration – may be normal, or a sign of ammonia toxicity.
Slow, shallow respiration – normal for most fishes.

Jay

 

[kadamik]

Well, as they say, "It's complicated" (grin).

In general, water temperature changes respiration rates in a linear slope, while size changes it on a log scale....warmer water causes fish to breath a bit faster, but small fish breath a lot faster than larger fish of the same species. I find it easiest to measure the number of gill beats in 15 seconds, and then multiply by 4. Do that a few times and then average the number.

In my yet-to-be published disease book, I have a whole section on respiration rates. It has imbedded images and charts, so I can't post it here, but here is the intro text to that section:

Respiration rates

Aquarists are warned throughout this book about rapid breathing in their fish as a symptom of potential problems, yet few know just what “rapid” is. Obviously, fish kept in warmer water or those with gill disease will respire more rapidly. Actively swimming fish respire faster than sedentary ones. Less obvious is that larger fish respire more slowly and, in some cases, high ammonia levels will cause a fish to respire more slowly than normal. While there is some difference between species, (Chinese algae eaters will breathe twice as fast as any other fish their size) most tropical fish of the size kept in smaller aquariums should breathe at a rate of between 70 and 120 gill beats per minute. Relative respiration rate is the most important value – capturing the respiration rate of your fish when they are known to be healthy, gives you a baseline to compare to if you later suspect a problem. Not having this baseline data is an issue for newly acquired fish, so using the information below may serve as a secondary reference.


Fish may exhibit a variety of respiration forms in addition to the actual rate itself:

Mouth open respiration – may be a sign of gill disease or toxic compounds in the water.
Rapid, shallow respiration – may be signs as above, or just a result of high activity level.
Coughing – a result of high levels of particulates in the water, or gill parasites.
Gasping at surface – usually seen in freshwater fish under low oxygen conditions. Marine fish will usually not show this symptom, even if they have respiratory issues.
Facing into water flow – This is how marine fish often respond to respiratory issues.
Slow, deep respiration – may be normal, or a sign of ammonia toxicity.
Slow, shallow respiration – normal for most fishes.

Jay

Thank you. Can't wait to order the book

 

[yellow05gt]

Updated video of the PB. I just got home from work on lunch.

 

[yellow05gt]

Is this

Brooklynella?​

 

[Ben Pedersen]

I have found the PolyP Lab Medic very affective. Recently I purchased an achiles tang that looked healthy then developed ich (I believed - I am not an expert). The fish didn't look as bad as your powder blue, but was close. There was no way to remove the fish and there are many other fish in the tank.

I started the Medic and within 3 days all spots and hair was gone. Im in the process of completing a 20 day course. They say 10 day will work.. but wanted to make sure it is completely gone.

This is my experince.. I have had others tell me the stuff doesn't work.. It is working for me.

Medic

Medic is a highly effective water conditioner used to control external fish parasites present in both marine and freshwater environments.

www.polyplab.com