Tangs dying

FreedomLantern

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Hello! Our 65 gallon tank has been established for roughly a year. About 3 months ago, we got a yellow tang; and 3 weeks ago we got a hippo tang. Two weeks after adding the hippo tang our yellow tang stopped eating and was hiding behind the rocks. Two days later he died, and looked awfully emaciated, so we decided to up the feeding. We used to feed once daily with Life Spectrum dry food and green seaweed, with mysis shrimp once a week. When the yellow tang died, we started feeding twice a day and giving shrimp more often. But a week later, the hippo tang stopped eating and began hiding behind the rocks. Now it's laying on its side and also has some white dots on him (I have pictures). The other fish in the tank are 2 clown fish, a damsel, lawn mower blenny and a sifter goby. We also have a xenia and kenya corals. Except for the tangs, everybody is seeming to do all right. We have snails to control algae (one died though just yesterday). The tech of the tank: 1 power head, a protein skimmer, two aerators, and a heater. The last partial water change was 11 days ago and the temperature is 80 degrees. What do you think this is and what should we try next? My dad sanded a small amount of copper particles into the skimmer and also wants to add some formaldehyde for the white spots but we are agreed that this should have been done in quarantine only, not the whole tank. Please give feedback!
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Hi sorry to hear about your fish. So tangs are notorious ich/velvet magnets and that is probably what you have. It is hard to see in the picture whether or not that is actually ich or velvet or if it is just sand, but some of those white spots are just missing pigmentation. Your dad adding some copper will not kill parasites. Low levels of copper will not eradicate ich/velvet and only a therapeutic level of copper will do so. The time span of two weeks is in line with the life cycle of ich which makes me think it is that and if you are seeing white spots it is probably that as well. With ich and velvet you may not always see visible symptoms and the fish could die what seems like randomly. I'd Treat the whole tank if possible and removing the sand, live rock, inverts, and corals. I recommend doing this over letting that tank go fallow because you don't seem to have a lot of inverts in the tank. Also I do not recommend mixing medications like copper and formalin as that will just increase stress levels in the tank.

I recommend doing cupramine for a month before adding back in rock (you can use your old live rock but just let it dry out before adding it back in same goes with sand). I recommend cupramine because you can just remove it with a carbon filter
 
Thank you for your fast replies! We are thinking about doing a freshwater dip right now to give temporary relief from potential ich. Do you recommend doing this?
 
Gonna be honest the added stress of a freshwater dip might just straight up kill it but there really isn't any other option with where its at right now. Freshwater dips also really don't do anything for ich tbqh
 
So sorry for your loss. Many of us have been where you are right now, so it's empathy not sympathy we feel for your situation. Please check out this thread by @Humblefish for more information about how to treat sick fish: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-options-index.247573/ .

I'd start treatment right away! Let us know if the Hippo makes it. Good luck!
BTW, Hippos are notorious for laying sideways on the bottom of the tank and scaring the heck out of their owners...sort of like playing dead when they get really stressed or don't have an ideal hiding place other than the bottom of the tank. As long as it is still eating, you have a chance of saving the fish with treatment.
 
Thank you for your fast replies! We are thinking about doing a freshwater dip right now to give temporary relief from potential ich. Do you recommend doing this?

If it were my fish, I would just start copper treatment right away, ramping up to medicinal level over several hours...preferably in a separate sick tank. Just know that ALL the fish in the tank need to be treated, not just fish showing symptoms or the tang will just come back down with the problem when it is reintroduced to the tank.
 
Just finished the dip. She did great the whole time, was swimming around a lot unlike in the video here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/. When we released her back into the tank she swam a little bit but then settled onto the bottom. During the treatment there were some white bumps on her, but afterwards when we put her back in the tank, they disappeared. We did find some small, white, objects in the treatment bucket. Here are new images. Two are from under a microscope, they are images of a worm like object from two different ends. The fish appears to be more discolored. Some of the white dots on her maybe reflection or dirt on the side of the tank. Also, she is not eating anymore.

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We don't have copper treatment right now (not the stuff you recommend anyway) just the copper metal powder my dad has. No way to measure ppm.
 
Hi sorry to hear about your fish. So tangs are notorious ich/velvet magnets and that is probably what you have. It is hard to see in the picture whether or not that is actually ich or velvet or if it is just sand, but some of those white spots are just missing pigmentation. Your dad adding some copper will not kill parasites. Low levels of copper will not eradicate ich/velvet and only a therapeutic level of copper will do so. The time span of two weeks is in line with the life cycle of ich which makes me think it is that and if you are seeing white spots it is probably that as well. With ich and velvet you may not always see visible symptoms and the fish could die what seems like randomly. I'd Treat the whole tank if possible and removing the sand, live rock, inverts, and corals. I recommend doing this over letting that tank go fallow because you don't seem to have a lot of inverts in the tank. Also I do not recommend mixing medications like copper and formalin as that will just increase stress levels in the tank.

I recommend doing cupramine for a month before adding back in rock (you can use your old live rock but just let it dry out before adding it back in same goes with sand). I recommend cupramine because you can just remove it with a carbon filter

I wouldn't suggest dosing DT even with removing everything during treatment. Once treatment is over there will be trace elements always leached into the aquarium even with carbon running. Could still have ill effects on inverts.
 
Okay is the picture posted before or after the dip? She could have multiple thing going on here. Fluke and ich possibly. You will need copper or CP to eradicate ich and Prazipro to handle the flukes. Let me know about the photo.
 
The photo is after she was dipped.

Okay, well unfortunately it does look like ich. Nice job on the dip as you also identified flukes. Treat ich first since that is the worst of the two and the copper will suppress the flukes during the ich treatment.

You'll also need to run your display fallow for 76 days to eradicate from your aquarium.
 
We just ordered Seachem Cupramine and Prazipro. Can we move the fish into quarantine and the corals + snails into a separate tank and do full water change (instead of 76 days fallow)? Will this kill all the parasites? The fish will be treated in their quarantine.
 
Great job, you'll also need to order a solid test kit for the copper. Salifert, Seachem, and Hanna checkers work with Cupramine. Hanna being the best option.

To answer your question, no conducting 100% water change wont eradicate the parasite. You need to disrupt the parasites life cycle and remove its food source... the fish. The water change will help significantly but it only takes one parasite to produce 100 more.

I put some helpful tools for you below. Keep us posted and happy to help if you have questions.

Key Points to Successfully and Safely Administering Copper Medication:
  • Copper is extremely toxic to aquarium life. As a matter of fact, no inverts, corals, etc. can survive the copper treatment and it is advised to administer copper in separate QT at-least 20 feet away from DT. In addition, all tools should be utilized separately for water changes, testing, etc.
  • Copper is only effective when administered at therapeutic levels. Too low of solution it can’t do its job properly and too high of solution it can potentially kill your livestock.
  • My personal brand preference for copper treatment is Seachem Cupramine. It is fully charged (ionic) copper solution. I've personally had great success with this product but there are several great products on the market.
  • Do NOT run media such as carbon unless you're trying to remove or reduce of the copper solution.
  • Keep the QT scape minimalistic. You want to maintain consistent levels of copper during the treatment period and any additional media, sand bed, rock, etc. can affect the copper absorption rate. PVC piping is a great solution to use for creating hiding places for your livestock while in quarantine and it will not have a large impact on the copper solution.
  • A reliable test kit is a must and in conjunction with Cupramine I recommend the Hanna Checker. These tests kits are easy to facilitate and the results are read digitally. Seachem makes their own copper test kit. However, the results are viewed through a color scale which I find it hard to decipher.
*Note: API copper test kit does not work well with Cupramine.
  • When administering copper treatment, it is advised to slowly increase the copper level to allow time for your fish to adapt. I start with 1/4 the recommended amount suggested by Seachem. I then add 1/8 dose twice daily splitting between am/pm over a 4-5-day period until I reach the recommended level of .50ppm.
Treating for External Worms:
  • Conduct two separate 50% water changes over a 2-day period.
  • Run carbon for the same 2-days period in your media chamber if possible. *Note: Cupramine can be removed by adding carbon into your media chamber.
  • Test to ensure copper levels are reading below .10ppm
  • Dose the first recommended treatment QTY of Prazipro. 3-5 days later conduct a 50% water change and administer the second round of Prazipro.
 
Thank you so much for such detailed instructions. How many days should we keep the tank at .50ppm of copper after it is reached? Thank you.
 
30 days is advised, followed by 2 doses Prazipro over a 2 week period with 50% water change between each dose. Also make sure you get copper levels under .10ppm before starting the Prazipro treatment.
 
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Just to clarify, letting everything sit in a full tank of fresh water (including pumps, live rock, sand etc.. but excluding any living things); this will not work to expedite killing the ich and everything else? Putting freshly made saltwater of course afterward. Fish will be treated in separate quarantine. Meanwhile, corals will sit in a separate smaller tank for 76 days. Our though behind this is to get the DT up and running sooner. Thank you.
 
Final request: We took scrapings from the heater and examined them under the microscope, first at 10x then at 40x. Here is a video where you can see different types of worms or worms at different stages. The worms are very long relative to their diameter. But at the 3:00 minute mark I switched to 40x and you can see smaller creatures that appear not to be the same as the long thin ones. Are these dangerous, part of our problem? As you can see they are living in a structure that appears fuzzy. Picture attached of fuzzy stuff under microscope and regular picture. Here is the video: Salt water worms Here is the link to the video:
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